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Thanks Bert for this new topic. It should prove interesting for a lot of folks. JWA and I, and others, will do our best to give good and complete information on this subject. Big Larry
Larry,
You (and all others) are welcome. In retrospect, I should added this forum a few years ago. It will undoubtedly prove to be enlightening to many of us, myself included. I will look forward to the educational topics to follow.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Larry,
You (and all others) are welcome. In retrospect, I should added this forum a few years ago. It will undoubtedly prove to be enlightening to many of us, myself included. I will look forward to the educational topics to follow.
Bert
I was a personal friend of Frank Mallory and wrote many articles for him in his magazine. Mr. Campbell was also a friend as was author Peter Senich. Had many contacts with Bruce Canfield and some pics of my stuff appear in his books. All my US stuff is gone now with a few exceptions. I still have some US bayonets and fighting knives and a few deactivated hand grenades which have always fascinated me since I was a kid. Lived aboard Camp Pendleton for 3 years as my Dad was a USMC Master Sgt. Bombs and duds everywhere. Big Larry
Thanks for adding this Forum, Bert. There are several Winchester Military firearms that hopefully will be discussed here including the Model 1897, Model 97, Model 12, and Model 1200 shotguns; Model 94s (the Spruce Guns and the PCMR carbines), Model 75 training rifles, and Winder Muskets. Did I leave anything out? I’m sure I did.
Tom D said
Thanks for adding this Forum, Bert. There are several Winchester Military firearms that hopefully will be discussed here including the Model 1897, Model 97, Model 12, and Model 1200 shotguns; Model 94s (the Spruce Guns and the PCMR carbines), Model 75 training rifles, and Winder Muskets. Did I leave anything out? I’m sure I did.
Don’t forget the 1895 military arms.
Bert,
Thanks for adding this. It wasn’t my intent to push you into creating it but the OP of the other post brought up a good point. I am sure it will be entertaining as there are a LOT of Winchesters that saw military service, both commercial and military spec’d weapons.
Some of the standard production Winchester military use rifles I can think of off the top of my head include;
Winchester Hotchkiss
Winchester Lee Navy
Winchester 1895/1915 (Russian contract)
1897/97 Riot and Trench Guns
1903 automatic (US-WWI)
Model 87/”C. B. Winder” Muskets (Bert’s favorite)
1894 (Spruce Guns, and others)
Model 1912/12 Riot Guns
Model 1907
Pattern ’14 .303 bolt action rifles (British)
Pattern ’14 Winchester produced bayonets (yes, they are technically Winchester “Arms”/armaments)
Model 1917 .30-06 bolt action rifles (US)
Model 1917 Winchester produced bayonets (yes, they are technically Winchester “Arms”/armaments AND different from the Pattern ’14 bayonets)
Model 1918 BAR
M1 Garand
M1 Carbine
Model 75 (WWII USGI Trainer)
Model 67 (WWII British Home Guard)
Model 69 (WWII British Home Guard)
Model 74 (WWII British Home Guard)
Model 69A (C.S.G.)
M14
52B
52C
52D
Model 70 (sniper rifles)
1200/1200 Defender shotgun
1300/1300 Defender shotgun
I hope it will be an informative and entertaining addition to the WACA forum.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
WOW !!
That list far exceeds my expectations of military qualified firearms.
Thanks for the information !
Bill
Add the Winchester Hotchkiss to the list. The earliest bolt action adopted by the US military with both Army and Navy contracts. This is a rather rough example:
Mark Douglas said
Add the Winchester Hotchkiss to the list. The earliest bolt action adopted by the US military with both Army and Navy contracts. This is a rather rough example:
As most are. Thanks for contributing. Big Larry
Mark Douglas said
Add the Winchester Hotchkiss to the list. The earliest bolt action adopted by the US military with both Army and Navy contracts.
Good call, I forgot about the Hotchkiss.
I added it to the list.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
Great job on the list. I did have to edit it though… the correct Model designation is “87” for the ordnance marked Winder Muskets.
I also really like the Model 1897/97 Riot and Trench Guns.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Yep, you are correct, thanks for fixing my fat fingers.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Bert H. said
Jeff,Great job on the list. I did have to edit it though… the correct Model designation is “87” for the ordnance marked Winder Muskets.
I also really like the Model 1897/97 Riot and Trench Guns.
Bert
Sometime, I would be honored to show you my WW2 Trenchgun. Big Larry
Big Larry said
Sometime, I would be honored to show you my WW2 Trenchgun. Big Larry
I would be honored to see & handle it!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Have been collecting M1 Carbines for a while now. A fun little rifle to collect and especially shoot. BTW, I see there are more than a few people out west here. The holy grail of M1 Carbines, to me anyway, sit in the Cody Museum in Wyoming. Hope to get out there some day and see the Winchester prototype M1 Carbines in person.
Big Larry said
As most are. Thanks for contributing. Big Larry
Here is a picture of my 2nd model carbine.
Hello all. I had a question on a model 97 Riot. The serial number is 735 say mid 500s dont remember last 3, the first 3 I seem to commit to memory as they are they most useful. I can post the rest if I need, I will dig it out. Im not one who worries about the whole number with xxx I just dont remember. It came from an Ulrich from Winchester the last surviving Winchester Ulrich who were engravers and this amy have been done in the engraving department not sure, and he states it was a canceled Navy Contract shotgun. I am guessing the 5 or 7 Treaty pact after the war. My question is does anyone know or ever even heard whisper of this? I think it is a fascinating hidden fact if so. It is believed to have been milled out on the side of the receiver left side dead middle 1/4 x 3″ approximately
Larry,
Model 97 serial number 735500 was manufactured in September 1920. At that time Alden Ulrich was the lone engrave in Winchester’s Custom Shop.
I am unaware of any “Navy” contract Model 97 Riot guns, or a cancelled contract for them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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