US Property Model 70 questions|Winchester Military Arms|Forum|Winchester Collector

Be careful not to change anything. Hang on to your CMP papers to be able to prove provenance. Add a nice, genuine, leather sling, and maybe a Lyman Super Targetspot. I have owned 2 US M70’s. One, a US PROPERTY , standard M70 from 1942, and a papered Van Orden Sniper. Someone ground the US off the receiver It had a medium weight bbl., and a Lyman Super Targetspot. Best to leave  it alone as Scott Duff would say.   Big Larry

You might wish to get the original hand stop and front sling hardware that rifle came with. Looks like this:

Since the rifle is fitted with a Redfield Olympic rear base, you might also wish to get Olympic front and receiver sights.

BRP 

Hi vellneuve-

Interesting milsurp rifle… I saw that one in the CMP auction (added it to the M70 survey).  S/N 405037 is a 1957 M70 and, as you said, not one of the recorded VO “Snipers”.  The US Armed Forces bought a lot of M70 Target rifles directly from Winchester, especially, it seems, in 1957.

FWIW… The graph I’ll paste below is my attempt to show, from survey data, the relationship between serial numbers of G7044C that went through Evaluators Ltd (VO Snipers and Special targets), other “US PROPERTY” marked M70 Target rifles, and civilian G7044C (presumably no military connection).  The serial numbers of the three groups very commonly overlap (even consecutive).  I presume this is b/c 30-06 Target rifles used specialized receivers (with clip slot) that were made up in batches…  Short story is that just because a Model 70 Target has a S/N CLOSE TO a Van Orden doesn’t mean that it IS a Van Orden…   I wish RIA would figure this out…

In original form, S/N 405037 would have had a 24″ Medium Heavy (Target) barrel in 30-06 SPFLD.  By 1957, G7044C was not regularly supplied with metallic sights, but always had Lyman type (coved on top) scope blocks, the front block being 0.360″ high and the receiver block 0.185″ high.  Whether the military asked Winchester to supply metallic sights with these rifles in 1957 is unknown (to me)…

As for “in service” alterations: 1) The rifle was re-barreled to 308 Winchester; 2) The recoil lug and first 2-inches of the barrel channel were glass bedded and the remainder generously free floated, this was typical military armorer work; 3) While the stock appears unaltered, except for bedding/barrel channel, it is missing the front sling swivel and adjustable hand stop assembly (like in BRP’s pic above); 4) The rifle has an (added) Redfield rail for mounting a Redfield Olympic or International receiver sight and what looks to me like the correct muzzle block for mounting a Redfield Olympic/International globe sight; 5) The scope block on the (front) receiver ring is factory, while the barrel block looks like a Unertl B70 block (0.260″ high) where one of the “crescents” for locking the scope into position has been reamed to accept a “POSA” mount (slightly strange that the receiver block wasn’t also modified)…

So as far as making it “period correct”…  Let’s assume that it wasn’t converted to 308 Winchester until sometime in the 1960s.  Meaning that I wouldn’t want to put the sights on it that a Van Orden would have carried in the 1950s, i.e. Lyman 48WH receiver sight and Lyman 77R globe front.  I think I’d take advantage of the Redfield rail and get a set of either Olympics or Internationals.  My sense (little data) is that the Redfields became more popular than the Lymans with military rifle teams, and the Internationals appeared in 1959. So either would be OK IMHO…  I would put the front swivel/hand stop assembly back together, as they would have been used (with a sling) in competition.  My inclination would be to replace the barrel block, but only b/c I don’t like the home made “POSA” alteration.  If you plan on 1000-yard shooting, keep the Unertl B70 height, otherwise I’d go with the 0.360″ high front block the factory used on target weight barrels.

As for scopes…  In the 1950s, the USMC used, and Evaluators Ltd (Van Orden) recommended, a 20X Lyman Super Targetspot for Camp Perry and similar venues.  I do not know what was in vogue in the 1960s and later…  In any event, I’d definitely add a US M1907 sling once the front swivel situation is fixed.

This is just my opinion, but I hope it helps!!!

Lou

Hi vellnueve-

The same handstop assembly was used on Model 70s and Model 52s with the Marksman stock.  They are not that hard to find and turn up on eBay fairly often. You might need to buy the complete assembly even though you don’t need the rail, just everything else…

Lou

Villneuve-

The ones you need for a 1957 M70 Target and/or M52C look like these…  Blued (not satin chrome) and with the front swivel looking like the upper right one in the second picture. 

Good Luck!!!

Lou