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Possible spruce gun
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May 17, 2020 - 2:49 pm
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My uncle has this Model 94 and asked me if I could find info on it. I used imgur trying to keep the size of my post down. The serial number is 848563 and it looks to have been used a lot. 

My uncle’s M94

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May 17, 2020 - 2:56 pm
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Hello,

It is an authentic Spruce Gun, and it was manufactured April 2, 1917.  It becomes the 240th confirmed serial number of the 1,800 sold to the U.S. Army.

Bert

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May 17, 2020 - 5:13 pm
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Thank you for the reply. Do you know an estimated value?

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May 17, 2020 - 5:20 pm
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Tunes:

Pretty rough and really not enough pictures/detail to give a good estimate but I would think around $1,200.

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May 17, 2020 - 6:17 pm
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Thank you

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June 13, 2020 - 3:09 am
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Papa_Chavez said
Hello,

I’m a new collector and I think I might have obtained a Spruce Gun. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

My Winchester 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine. Manufactured in 1916, This gun was 1 of 1800 purchased by the U.S. Army to arm the “Spruce Battalions” that guarded the forests in the Northwest. It is 1 of 16 discovered that does not have “Shell and Flame” stamp.

  

Can you post a picture showing top of the receiver?  Does it have a “U S” and flaming ordnance bomb stamped on the frame ring?

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June 13, 2020 - 3:25 am
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Sure,

I took a picture of the top of the receiver and included it in the link of imgur photos that I posted. It does not have the U.S. or flaming ordnance mark.

1ZydISm.jpgImage Enlarger

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June 13, 2020 - 3:34 am
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Papa_Chavez said
Sure,

I took a picture of the top of the receiver and included it in the link of imgur photos that I posted. It does not have the U.S. or flaming ordnance mark.

1ZydISm.jpgImage Enlarger  

Your Model 1894 Spruce Gun is one of (16) known that have the “J.C. ’17” marking on the bottom of the receiver frame, but does not have the ordnance markings on the top of the receiver frame ring.  They are all found in a relatively small (close) serial number range, and your gun is in that range.  It is not known for sure why some of the Spruce Guns were marked in that manner.

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June 13, 2020 - 4:29 am
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So the gun is authentic? That’s amazing! It’s hard to believe the first model 94 I ever bought was used in some capacity in WWI. That is truly incredible. I’m sure the gun is worth at least the $750 that I paid for it but now that I know its authentic I don’t have any plans to part with it. I’ll make sure to take real good care of it and pass it down to my kids or donate it to a museum someday. I kind of want to take it out and hunt with it but I’m not sure if I should use it. I’m guessing it’s probably not a good idea to dry fire it either. Anyway, Thanks for looking at the gun and replying so quickly Bert!

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June 13, 2020 - 5:05 pm
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Papa_Chavez said
So the gun is authentic? That’s amazing! It’s hard to believe the first model 94 I ever bought was used in some capacity in WWI. That is truly incredible. I’m sure the gun is worth at least the $750 that I paid for it but now that I know its authentic I don’t have any plans to part with it. I’ll make sure to take real good care of it and pass it down to my kids or donate it to a museum someday. I kind of want to take it out and hunt with it but I’m not sure if I should use it. I’m guessing it’s probably not a good idea to dry fire it either. Anyway, Thanks for looking at the gun and replying so quickly Bert!  

Yes, it is authentic.  Per the factory records, it was manufactured 3/1/1916.  I did note that the rear sight is not original.  In your shoes, I would find and purchase an original rear sight.

You are quite welcome,

Bert

IMG_1323-1.jpgImage Enlarger

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June 14, 2020 - 9:12 pm
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Papa Chavez:

Bert is obviosly quite correct ref. originality and need for the correct Model 44A rear sight.  I have collected Model 1894 carbines for over 60 years and currently have a couple of correct rear sights that have the condition that you would need to match your nice carbine.  If interested let me know and I can send detailed photos etc.

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June 14, 2020 - 10:58 pm
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Papa Chavez:

Here are pictures of the Model 44A ladder sights that I have that are correct for the Spruce Gun.

 

44A-1.jpgImage Enlarger44A-3.jpgImage Enlarger

 

The second one has lot more condition than the first but I think the second one would be a better match condition-wise for your carbine.

1st sight $175 delivered:  2nd sight $225 delivered.

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June 14, 2020 - 11:14 pm
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Rick,

I would like to purchase the second sight. PM me the details. Thanks!

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November 16, 2020 - 2:56 am
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Congrats on your SPRUCE GUN!

I have owned two of them and currently own U.S. marked S/N 837724 and these are pretty scarce guns…..only 240 out of 1800 have made the survivor list thus far.

Here are some photos you may find of interest relating to the SPRUCE GUN’S and their place in WWI history, ENJOY!

https://i.postimg.cc/C15QQRv9/234263396-0083fd297c-b-d.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/Hn7PTf12/256652681-231b0b5b31-b-d.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/rpQHj19S/Doughboy-With-Mdl1894-s.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/05T97vj9/IMG-1152.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/J7D1y01T/IMG-1153.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/xCZ4D9h8/IMG-1157.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/nMbSr0Ht/IMG-1161.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/65Ct0P4n/IMG-1164.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/g2Dd96D0/IMG-1169.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/rpwTqFnN/IMG-1170.jpgImage Enlarger

https://i.postimg.cc/W1jjf70K/LLLL-Collar-Pin-s.jpgImage Enlarger

Tom Graham - Salmon, Idaho

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November 16, 2020 - 3:14 am
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The Spruce Gun list currently has (246) verified specimens in it.

Bert

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January 23, 2021 - 7:00 pm
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Update:

The Spruce Gun survey now has (250) verified (confirmed) entries, and now has (22) known fakes, with the listing below being the latest entry to the “Fake” list…

U.S. Marked Winchester Model 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine (rockislandauction.com)

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February 4, 2021 - 11:03 pm
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well the fake one mentioned above sold for $4000 plus buyers penalty while this one in the same auction which I believe is real sold for only $2250 plus buyers penalty.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1036/2164/us-winchester-model-1894-carbine

makes you wonder.

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February 5, 2021 - 3:19 am
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Colt1860 said
well the fake one mentioned above sold for $4000 plus buyers penalty while this one in the same auction which I believe is real sold for only $2250 plus buyers penalty.  https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/1036/2164/us-winchester-model-1894-carbine

makes you wonder.  

Somebody got “screwed” on the Fake Spruce Gun, and someone got a good deal on the authentic Spruce Gun. I asked RIA for additional pictures of it to confirm it was real, and it became No. (251) in the survey.

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