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I recently purchased what I was told was an “unissued civilian” winchester 1917 bayonet. It’s in pristine condition, has the w stamp on 1 side, but where there should be military markings there is nothing. I’ve attached some photos. Any info about, number made, condition/ price would be greatly appreciated thanks justin
Also shown remington and norinco
I recently purchased what I was told was an “unissued civilian” winchester 1917 bayonet. Justin Caudill said
A special “civilian” bayonet for a military rifle? Doesn’t sound very plausible to me. But shortcuts were taken in wartime production, like slings that should be dated & maker-marked, but aren’t. Even if it’s legit, can’t be worth as much as a properly marked one.
I have a Remington and a Winchester. Both have the 1917 with the makers mark on one side. On the other side there is a flaming bomb, eagles head and US. I don’t think there were any Winchester 1917’s rifles made for the civilian market? Your bayonet might not have gone through the military inspection and was never issued. According to C. S. Ferris 3,493,303 bayonets were ordered. 2,520,000 1917 rifles were produced but only 1,961,500 bayonets. 545,500 Pattern 13 bayonets made for Britain were bought back from Britain and have the British marks crossed out and the 1917 inspection marks added. Remington made 1,565,644 P-17 bayonets and Winchester made 395,894.
These bayonets were used on the 1917, WW I and WW II 1897/97 trench guns. Some of these guns were used through Viet Nam.
Cost varies base on condition and maker. Winchesters bring the most. My Remington came with a WW I trench gun and the Winchester came on a 1917 that I took the bayonet off and sold the gun. So, I have never bought a bayonet by itself.
Buy Ferris’ book. United States Rifle Model of 1917.
The guy I got it from said that some were issued to police stations along with the 97 riot/trench guns. He said thats why theyre missing the military markings. That was his story.
Online
Justin Caudill said
The guy I got it from said that some were issued to police stations along with the 97 riot/trench guns. He said thats why theyre missing the military markings. That was his story.
Justin… you said it, “his story”, and that is exactly what you should consider it.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
From what I have learned it is bayonet made for commercial release,after the wars, from what was left.They are really not to easy to find either. It should probably be phosphate coated, some call it parkerized , but the link chuck provided is the guy I learned from and one might be listed on his site with a description.
Seems to me I had one of those unmarked Winchester 1917 bayonets when I collected US martial shotguns. But, alas, my memory has faded with time.
BTW, the 1917 Remington bayonets dated 1918 are very hard to find. Much harder than the Winchester.
Of course, one who owns a martially marked M1897 WW1 Trenchgun, would want a martially marked bayonet. Same for a WW2 martially marked Trenchgun.
I have a drippy mint M97 Trenchgun from 1943, and you can bet, I have an equally drippy mint US marked Winchester bayonet and scabbard for it.
Here is a pic of a commercial M97. Cannot make out the bayonet markings. Big Larry
Bill Hanzel said
From what I have learned it is bayonet made for commercial release,after the wars, from what was left.They are really not to easy to find either. It should probably be phosphate coated, some call it parkerized , but the link chuck provided is the guy I learned from and one might be listed on his site with a description.
The original 1917 bayonets were not parkerized. They look just like the one he is asking about but with the military markings. My Winchester looks just like his but has the other marks.
Sorry, I don’t always type what I am thinking.
they are just unissued released to the commercial market.I will ask Otto if any of the wwll era ones with the different finish ever made it to the commercial market.The commercial one I have(right)does not appear to be blued like the original(middle), nor coated like the wwll era ones(left). I will make a call tomorrow and verify the exact finish on the commercial ones versus all the rest….. stay tuned.
Sorry about the slow response…
the hilts were all originally blued and blades finished bright.later the blades were bead blasted to reduce glare and many were completely blued during subsequent refinishing after wwl. Those that were refinished for wwll were completely phosphated.
He also looked at his photo archive for the commercial Winchesters and they all appear to have the blued hilt and bead blasted blade.
hope this clears up questions if there were any.
Bill Hanzel said
Sorry about the slow response…the hilts were all originally blued and blades finished bright.later the blades were bead blasted to reduce glare and many were completely blued during subsequent refinishing after wwl. Those that were refinished for wwll were completely phosphated.
He also looked at his photo archive for the commercial Winchesters and they all appear to have the blued hilt and bead blasted blade.
hope this clears up questions if there were any.
And they all had the circle W ? I am not sure they were bead blasted. I think they were put in a pickling solution. Never seen a bright one or one completely blued. Big Larry
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