Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Another Trench gun authentication.
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 7, 2022 - 4:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Hey guys! 

I just became a member of this great community and I’m curious about this listing on gb.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/931535504

To the untrained eye like myself it seems quite pristine except for a few dings on the receiver. Serial E 932388. Bayonet lugs and 6 row heat shield all look correct to me. Yet again I’m definitely not an expert. Flaming bomb, other proof marks and the WB cartouche checks out. As far as I know it has a mfg of 1942 as per different records online and the cartouche. It is fetching quite a penny and I would appreciate if anyone chimed in about it’s validity of being an actual “Trench” issue and not a Riot issue.

Thank you!

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 65
Member Since:
November 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 7, 2022 - 5:00 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

It’s an early WWII production Model 97 trench gun.  From the photos it looks correct.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 7, 2022 - 5:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Tom D said
It’s an early WWII production Model 97 trench gun.  From the photos it looks correct.  

Thanks for chiming in Tom I appreciate it! 

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12594
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
May 7, 2022 - 6:21 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Tom D said
It’s an early WWII production Model 97 trench gun.  From the photos it looks correct.  

I concur and will add that it is an early February 1942 production gun.  The barrel is most likely dated “41”.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 65
Member Since:
November 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
May 7, 2022 - 6:28 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Bert, can you double check the production date?  I own number 931939 which I believe is a June 1942 production trench gun.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12594
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
May 7, 2022 - 6:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Tom D said
Bert, can you double check the production date?  I own number 931939 which I believe is a June 1942 production trench gun.  

Tom,

Model 97 S/N 931939 is listed in the records as “Jan 29, 1942”

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
May 7, 2022 - 7:08 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Bert H. said

I concur and will add that it is an early February 1942 production gun.  The barrel is most likely dated “41”.

Bert  

Thanks for your input Bert! Much respect. It’s been skyrocketing price wise. 
From the pictures, what would you grade it’s overall condition? 

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Kingston, WA
Admin
Forum Posts: 12594
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
May 7, 2022 - 7:45 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Bisli said

Thanks for your input Bert! Much respect. It’s been skyrocketing price wise. 
From the pictures, what would you grade it’s overall condition?   

For a military issued gun, the graded condition is at the top end of the “Very Good” scale.  The current bid amount is approaching the actual value (in my opinion).  That stated, because it is listed on Gunbroker, it will undoubtedly go a fair bit higher in the final few hours of the timed auction.

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
May 7, 2022 - 7:53 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Bert H. said

For a military issued gun, the graded condition is at the top end of the “Very Good” scale.  The current bid amount is approaching the actual value (in my opinion).  That stated, because it is listed on Gunbroker, it will undoubtedly go a fair bit higher in the final few hours of the timed auction.  

I did infact notice a slightly hefty jump in prices between previous listings on Gunbroker and other private auction houses. Especially with these Trench guns. I absolutely appreciate your two cents on this example Bert, super helpful. 

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1718
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
May 8, 2022 - 3:11 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Gets my meager approval. Nice shotgun and 100% correct.   Big Larry

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
May 8, 2022 - 8:41 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Big Larry said
Gets my meager approval. Nice shotgun and 100% correct.   Big Larry  

Thanks for chiming in Big Larry! It is definitely a nice example. 

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1718
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
May 8, 2022 - 9:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Found the pic of my #955552 from 1943. Notice, even the sling, dated 1943, is minty. Nice Trenchguns are very valuable, and hard to find.

The auction gun is superb.  Big Larry

 

M1897-Trenchgun.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
May 8, 2022 - 11:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Big Larry said
Found the pic of my #955552 from 1943. Notice, even the sling, dated 1943, is minty. Nice Trenchguns are very valuable, and hard to find.

The auction gun is superb.  Big Larry

 

M1897-Trenchgun.JPGImage Enlarger  

That’s one sweet example Big Larry. Sling is absolutely the cherry ontop. The sling on this one is stamped Milco 43 even though according to Bert #932388 is a Jan 29 1942 issue. Still a great shotgun nonetheless. Definitely appreciate the photos of that minty beauty!

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1718
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
May 9, 2022 - 12:56 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Years ago, I had quite a nice US Shotgun collection to include the nicest M1897 US marked Trenchgun from WW1. 99% and none of the exerts ever saw one that nice. I got $13,000 for it, but not my most expensive. That was my extremely rare Ithaca Trenchgun from WW2. I got $17,500 for that one. All  gone now except for the one pictured. Some of my US Militaria collection, I would like to have back. Big Larry

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
May 20, 2022 - 4:12 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

A quick question popped up into mind. Serial# E 932388 has a 6-row heat shield and was produced in early Feb 1942 as Bert stated above. According to several books I’ve skimmed through these heat shields were replaced by the 4-row variant around mid to late 1942. The 6 rivets on the bayonet lugs and two support indentations look correct in the pictures though I haven’t personally handled the firearm yet due to it being exported/imported up north. I know some trench guns in WWII originally had WWI parts thrown on them. Could it be possible this is one of those examples? 

Thanks guys.

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 65
Member Since:
November 26, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
May 20, 2022 - 5:10 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

The early WWII production Model 97 trench guns had heat shields with 6 rows of cooling holes.  The bayonet adaptors on these early trench guns were not marked.  The subject gun is well within the serial number range of those early guns.  It looks totally correct from the photos.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 11
Member Since:
May 7, 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
May 20, 2022 - 5:27 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Tom D said
The early WWII production Model 97 trench guns had heat shields with 6 rows of cooling holes.  The bayonet adaptors on these early trench guns were not marked.  The subject gun is well within the serial number range of those early guns.  It looks totally correct from the photos.

  

Thanks for the input Tom I definitely appreciate it.Laugh

 

A simple shooter, humble collector.

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 628
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 67
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5159
clarence: 4179
TXGunNut: 3828
Chuck: 3446
steve004: 3038
twobit: 2841
Maverick: 1999
JWA: 1785
Big Larry: 1718
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10277
Posts: 88567

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1401
Members: 11428
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation