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Winchester reloading tool set in wooden box
June 15, 2018
6:50 pm
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I seem to remember reading an article in the late 60's, maybe early 70's about these.  Don't remember if it was in American Rifleman, Man at Arms or maybe Gun Report.  At any rate, this is it.  The 1894 tool, mold and accessories fit perfectly and the inside of the box even has machined cut channels for the brass ferrule's on the end of the bullet mold.  Apparently at Christmas in 1906, someone got a set of reloading implements for a .25-20 and put them in this box.  However, I tried the 1882 model tool and mold and they do not fit well at all, so in my opinion, this box was made for the 1894 set. If anyone has any information on these, please let me know. 

 

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June 15, 2018
8:46 pm
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win4575 said
I seem to remember reading an article in the late 60's, maybe early 70's about these.  Don't remember if it was in American Rifleman, Man at Arms or maybe Gun Report.  At any rate, this is it.  The 1894 tool, mold and accessories fit perfectly and the inside of the box even has machined cut channels for the brass ferrule's on the end of the bullet mold.  Apparently at Christmas in 1906, someone got a set of reloading implements for a .25-20 and put them in this box.  However, I tried the 1882 model tool and mold and they do not fit well at all, so in my opinion, this box was made for the 1894 set. If anyone has any information on these, please let me know. 

 

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Rick,

Learn something new everyday. I've seen tools in wood boxes, but this first one I've seen with an end label like that one. Looks by the writing like someone at one time took a 1894 Tool box and stuck their 1882 Tool in it and penciled in 25-20 over it.  What's the history you know for certain about the box? When you got it did it have the 1882 Tool in it? Did you put the 1894 Tool in it? Or did it already have the 1894 Tool in it? If so, did the Instruction sheet come with it? Or did you find one and put with it? Or is it simply a copy? If its original, can you send me a pic of the front and back? Do you have the decapper pin for the set?

I know Bob's got an 1882 Tool in a wood box. And I've got a 1880 Spoon Handle Tool in a wood box. But I've always sorta thought that these boxes couldn't have been original factory boxes. And always kinda thought they were home made or done outside of the factory. You know back before television most people had a lot more free time on their hands to do wood working and this kinda of thing.

Your box there makes want to rethink this scenario a bit. But I suppose one could play devil's advocate and say someone may have slapped a label on a wood box. What's most interesting to me, is that my 1880 Tool doesn't quite fit and had to be cut to fit, just like the mold in your box. When I get a chance I shoot some photos of it and post.

Sincerely,

Maverick

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June 16, 2018
1:12 am
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The 1894 set was in the box.  Missing decapping pin only.  Instruction sheet is original.  Will post photos of this when I can.  Would like to see the set you have and the one Bob has. Picked this up from a guy who bought it at a local estate sale.  No one knew for sure what it was.

June 16, 2018
3:19 am
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Here is a picture of mine.

Bob

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June 16, 2018
3:33 am
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1873man said
Here is a picture of mine.

Bob

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That is a super nice set!

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June 16, 2018
4:00 am
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Bob,

That's a very nice set.  Thanks so much for posting pics.  

June 16, 2018
4:09 am
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There were a couple tins of primers with it when I bought it as well but what I was impressed with was the little wooden hammer to tap the sprue plate. I figured its someones fantasy box since there is no reason to have it lockable.

Bob

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June 16, 2018
5:57 am
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Rick,

I'll try my best to describe what I think I know about my set, or at least until we can prove otherwise.Wink

Not to boast but its one of the most interesting sets I've ever come across. That is until I saw yours!

The set has a model 1880 1st Type Spoon Handle Tool in 45-60 with the 3-Line address on the backside. Which I currently believe makes it one of the late production spoon handle tools likely made in 1883 right before they went to the flat pliars type handles in 1883-84 (per Yearout). The bullet mold is the 4th Model Type in 45-60. I believe its a somewhat early mold, it does not have the 3-Line address on the side of mold block, nor does it have a block alignment pin. On the top side above the caliber mark is marked "300 GR", which means 300 grains (although come to think of it I've never cast it to see what it actually makes). On the bottom side the handle is marked "23 1/3 = 1LB", which I believe means, out of 1 pound of Lead it will cast 23 & 1/3 bullets! Or simply put 1LB equals 7000 grains. So 7000 grs / 300grs = 23.33333 or 23 & 1/3. Why this is mold is marked in the manner, I currently have no Idea! Other than to say, "It is what it is". I have seen some odd markings on various molds but not quite like this one.

The mold has two wood file handles that slip onto it. Each handle has three markings on it. Marked as follows "----->NICHOLSON FILE CO.<-----", "---->PAT'D.JAN.1.'78.<-----", & "---->DOUBLE ENDER<-----". I'm still researching these handles but believe they maybe as old as the rest of the set, but honestly don't know for sure. Also wonder if someone merely added them because they do the job nicely. I believe the patent date is January 1, 1878 which would make the Patent number US198777. I have sent a request for more info about these handles to Nicholson Tool Company, as they still exist and have been since 1864. But they have yet to respond to me. Also with the set is a Wad Cutter marked "45 Webley". Why its not a 45-60 wad cutter, I do wonder, but if you think about it, it does cut the same .45 diameter wad. Also with the set is the early tear drop type powder measure. Interesting with it, its marked "60" with a "70" having been marked out with a zero.

The seller of this set claimed he didn't know anything about it, and merely stated it was part of an estate he was selling off. The only thing that didn't come with this set that I put with it, is the decapping pin marked 45W. I got it from another junker 1880Tool in 45-60 and merely wanted a pin to keep with it. The set has a decent amount of bluing, but had been used. The bullet mold is pretty marked up and someone broke the sprue cutter stop pin off. Then they decided to grind or file it down flush with the mold block. Other than that, its a nice working set. 

I find it interesting that when I compare my box with yours, the dovetailing looks similar or about the same. And the box hinges and screws look identical. We might have to compare measurements to see how close they are. Obviously my box is shorter than yours. Also just like how your box is cut to fit the mold, mine has cuts to make things fit. There are relief cuts in the bottom for the spoon portions of the handle to rest in. And cuts for the wood handles to rest in. The box side is relief cut to fit the the berdan screw. The bottom side of the lid is relief cut to fit the bullet mold sprue cutter screw. Then also obviously there is a place for the wad cutter and charge cup and mold. Everything fits nice & snug, and if its not sitting just right the lid won't close all the way. The wood block on the top lid holds pressure on everything. Once its latched closed, the box can be moved around and nothing rattles. 

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Sorry for such a long response, but this kind of stuff gets the juices flowing. God is in the details!

Sincerely,

Maverick

P.S. Rick does your box have a place where a latch hook like my box may have been? Is there a screw hole in front side of the box?

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June 16, 2018
3:40 pm
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Maverick,

That's a very nice set.  My box measures 8 7/8" long, 4 1/8" wide and 2 7/8" tall.  Interesting that you have the wad cutter.  I too have a near new 1880 spoon handle set with a wad cutter marked 45W.  Caliber is .45-75.  Your cutter is only the second one I've ever seem with a Winchester caliber making.  Also wanted to mention that my box has never had provisions for closing and latching the lid.  I think these are very interesting.

June 19, 2018
5:09 am
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Rick,

Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I've just been busy, my box is 9-7/8" Long X 4-5/8" Wide X 2" Tall. 

Bob, I don't believe I've ever asked, what size is your wood box?

I've seen a couple of other wood boxed tools but nothing as nice as Bob's, Rick's, and mine. A while back a 1882 Tool sold that had a painted box that looked fairly old, it was a neat and nice looking box, but I still chop it up with being homemade. I one day hope I can figure out one way or another on these boxes. But for now I can only speculate at best. 

Sincerely,

Brady

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June 20, 2018
6:04 am
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Here is that painted box set I was referring to. Its an 1882 Tool set in 32wcf. Seems like a homemade box to me. On the bottom of the box is "F.C. Welch" "Lyme, NH". I did a search for that name. Believe this to possibly be a Francis C. Welch of Lyme, New Hampshire. There is a Francis C. Welch in the 1909 Boston Social Register. Boston, MA is only a two hour car ride today to Lyme, NH.
Possibly this was a well to do family moved from Boston to Lyme or vise versa.

Address noted as 58 Deerfield Street, Boston, MA. Phone No. 700BB

Mr. & Mrs. Francis C. Welch were members of the Easter Yacht Club, Somerset Gentlemen's Club, Athletic Club, Union Boat Club, & the Oakley Country Club. They are noted as having a son Edward Sohier Welch at Harvard and a son Mr. Francis W. Welch (wife Ruth Hayes Welch) that were members of the Tennis & Racquet Club, and Exchange Club. Phone No. 290 Bridge Street, Dedham, MA.

Of course I have no way of certain to know if this is indeed the person that is named of the box. But if it is, I thought it was somewhat of interesting piece of information. At the very least I suppose they could be related to the persons listed in the Social Register. 

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Either way I thought it was a interesting piece. You just don't see to many period boxed sets. Even if they're only homemade, somebody thought and cared enough about their reloading tools to put them in a nice box. A lot of people merely treated these items as the Tools that they are, just like the guns. 

Sincerely,

Maverick

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