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September 22, 2011
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I found this today, forgot I had it. It’s interesting that Winchester specifically manufactured bullets for MARLIN rifles, let alone acknowledging their existence. The 11-12 means the label dates from November of 1912 and the box and contents date from November 1912 or some time reasonably shortly thereafter.
November 19, 2006
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mrcvs said
I found this today, forgot I had it. It’s interesting that Winchester specifically manufactured bullets for MARLIN rifles, let alone acknowledging their existence. The 11-12 means the label dates from November of 1912 and the box and contents date from November 1912 or some time reasonably shortly thereafter.
Interesting. And one would have to be careful to load them in .32-20 case and then fire that cartridge in a Winchester? Or would less performance be expected?
March 31, 2009
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These are 32-40 bullets. The 32-40 and 38-55 were Marlin/Ballard cartridges originally.
November 19, 2006
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Chuck said
These are 32-40 bullets. The 32-40 and 38-55 were Marlin/Ballard cartridges originally.
Ah… makes more sense now.
March 31, 2009
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steve004 said
Chuck said
These are 32-40 bullets. The 32-40 and 38-55 were Marlin/Ballard cartridges originally.
Ah… makes more sense now.
As you can see from the pictures I added these calibers were first loaded by Winchester for the Model 1885. Later they were loaded for the 1894.
May 23, 2009
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mrcvs said
It’s interesting that Winchester specifically manufactured bullets for MARLIN rifles, let alone acknowledging their existence.
Winchester regularly marketed and sold Winchester Reloading Tools, Bullet Molds and bullets for the 25-20 Marlin, “32 Marlin Safety”, “38 Marlin Safety”, 44 Marlin, 40-60 Marlin, and the 45-70 Marlin.
About the only caliber I have yet to find in the Tools and Molds is in 45-85 Marlin.
But they did this for practically all of their competition. They did this practice for the entire production of the Reloading Tool and Bullet Molds. After production ended they continued to sell the bullets.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 7, 2015
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I’m still trying to figure out what grooved bullets were. I cast grooved lead bullets but somehow I don’t think this is what they’re referring to. I’m thinking maybe the bullets had crimp grooves not required in the Single Shot but required in the Marlin or Savage repeaters. I think I’ve got a little research to do, anyone care to point me in the right direction? I get in trouble when I think, sometimes I even get a headache.
Mike
September 22, 2011
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I don’t know what the Grooved Bullets means either. But I’m not about to open up a box that has been sealed for over eleven decades to find out.
November 2, 2009
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Grooved bullet means it has grease grooves, as opposed to a naked bullet (no grease grooves) for paper patch.
November 7, 2015
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win4575 said
Grooved bullet means it has grease grooves, as opposed to a naked bullet (no grease grooves) for paper patch.
Thank you, I’m pretty familiar with lube grooves and crimp grooves, don’t have the patience or dexterity for paper patch.
Mike
September 19, 2014
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Mike, Can definitely identify with your comments, and you undoubtedly know why. A buddy in our gun club used to shoot his own paper patched bullets of various chamberings (all single shots, Sharps, Rolling Blocks, etc). He isn’t able to shoot now due to his second stroke. Doubt he will be with us much longer, which is a shame. Always could learn something from him, especially about shooting black powder cartridges, which I don’t do. Tim
March 31, 2009
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Maverick said
About the only caliber I have yet to find in the Tools and Molds is in 45-85 Marlin.
Sincerely,
Maverick
The 45-85 Marlin, Ballard and Colt cartridges are hard to find too. All of these are the 45-70 case length. I bet one of these is what you need. Everything is for large frame Colts.
May 23, 2009
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Chuck said The 45-85 Marlin, Ballard and Colt cartridges are hard to find too. All of these are the 45-70 case length. I bet one of these is what you need. Everything is for large frame Colts.
Marlin Tools and Ideal Tools were made for the 45-85 Marlin cartridge.
I don’t believe Winchester ever made a Tool in 45-85 Marlin. If they did, likely a special order and would be a very rare tool.
win4575 said
Grooved bullet means it has grease grooves, as opposed to a naked bullet (no grease grooves) for paper patch.
As always, nailed it on the head! I’ve seen plenty of period factory made paper patched, metal patched, and grooved bullets with grease.
I don’t recall coming across any period packaged Winchester Bullets that were not greased and just merely the naked bullet. Have you?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
March 31, 2009
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Maverick said
Chuck said The 45-85 Marlin, Ballard and Colt cartridges are hard to find too. All of these are the 45-70 case length. I bet one of these is what you need. Everything is for large frame Colts.
Marlin Tools and Ideal Tools were made for the 45-85 Marlin cartridge.
I don’t believe Winchester ever made a Tool in 45-85 Marlin. If they did, likely a special order and would be a very rare tool.
I have to call the owner of the display before Greeley. I will ask him about his tools. Even if he has extras he doesn’t sell but is very knowledgeable.
March 31, 2009
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Maverick,
I called about the die. I was told that Ideal made a 45-85 die but as far as he knows, like you said, probably none by Winchester. The Ideal is only marked 45-85 but is too short for the Winchester 45-85 WCF cartridge. So it has to be for the Colt, Marlin and Bullard. Winchester loaded a 45-85 for the Colt, Marlin and Bullard but the head stamp does not have the WCF after the 45-85.
He is not going to Greeley. His display will be in Dallas at the NRA show. But he will be in Cody.
May 23, 2009
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Yeah the Winchester 45-85 WCF is basically the 45-90 WCF, but you already knew that, as you have one.
I don’t know anywhere near as much about the Ideal Tools as I do the Winchester Tools. Just not my cup of tea. But there are certain calibers that if you want a period tool to reload with you’ll have to buy the Ideal Tool as Winchester never made them. Most of the smokeless calibers are that way.
Winchester did make Tools for the 40-60 Colts Lightning, which maybe in his Colt display.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 1, 2013
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Maverick said
I don’t know anywhere near as much about the Ideal Tools as I do the Winchester Tools. Just not my cup of tea.
I’ll be very surprised if reading an early (BP) Ideal Handbook doesn’t change your mind! Not only was former Sgt. Barlow a character, he knew every aspect of loading & casting forwards & backwards, & his handbooks are a gold-mine of bullet & cartridge info.
March 31, 2009
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Clarence what catalog would be good to find? I only have one from 1951. Would Cornell have any good repos?
November 1, 2013
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Chuck said
Clarence what catalog would be good to find? I only have one from 1951. Would Cornell have any good repos?
Haven’t looked at Cornell’s selection, but assume so. I found a really high-quality repro of #5 (c. 1890) pub by Hoyem Books in ’92; I wouldn’t sell it for $50. Many collect the originals, so they aren’t cheap, but I’ve bought several ’20s & ’30 eds from $30 to $40 on ebay; the pre-smokeless eds would of course be considerably more.
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