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October 29, 2011
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Anyone using this powder for 25-20? Want to load Hornady 2510 60 gain jacketed. Normally used 4227 9.6 grains with 85 grain lead–Thanks Bill
April 15, 2005
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Bill,
I currently load my 25-20 S.S. cartridges with IMR 4198 or Lil’Gun powder. In the past I loaded with A2400 and IMR 4227.
For the Hornady 60-gr JFP bullet, I load with 11.0 grains of IMR 4198 or 8.5 grains of Lil’Gun.
For the Sierra 70-gr JSP bullet, I load with 12.0 grains of IMR 4198 or 9.5 grains of Lil’Gun
I also have some 93-grain GC cast bullets that I have loaded using those same two powders.
For future reference;
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 12, 2019
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I’d be very wary of Unique in any bottleneck case unless I found published and tested loading data. Even then, I don’t think I ever have, or ever will, use any of the really fast powders (Unique, Bullseye, etc.) in any of my original Winchesters out of fear of a double charge.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
March 3, 2020
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I’ve never used Unique, but do use 2400 under a Speer 75gr Hotpoint with great success at silhouette.
March 31, 2009
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I’ve used Unique in the 44 WCF. I can’t remember the load but is was around 8 grs. ?????? Very fast stuff..
March 31, 2009
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In P. O. Ackley’s book on page 329 he shows a load for a 25-20 WCF with an 86 gr. bullet and 5.5 grs. of Unique for 1,795 fps.
8.5 grs. of 4227 will get 1,400 fps. 10.5 grs. of 4227 he says will get you 1,725 fps. He also shows 2 loads with a 60 gr. bullet but these he uses 2400, 11.5 gr for 2,200 fps. and 4227, 12.5 grs. for 2,150 fps.
Start low and work up….
April 15, 2005
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Chuck said
In P. O. Ackley’s book on page 329 he shows a load for a 25-20 WCF with an 86 gr. bullet and 5.5 grs. of Unique for 1,795 fps.
8.5 grs. of 4227 will get 1,400 fps. 10.5 grs. of 4227 he says will get you 1,725 fps. He also shows 2 loads with a 60 gr. bullet but these he uses 2400, 11.5 gr for 2,200 fps. and 4227, 12.5 grs. for 2,150 fps.
Start low and work up….
Due to the significant difference in the case dimensions, what works well in the 25-20 WCF does not work as well in the 25-20 S.S.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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The original post did not mention the 25-20 SS. So I assumed he meant the WCF. Whichever one he meant he now has a lot of data.
March 23, 2007
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Like Nevada Paul, I too am a little leery of using a fast burning powder like Unique in either 25-20 chambering.
October 29, 2011
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Thanks for all the input, have updated my load data chart–Bill
January 20, 2023
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Nevada Paul said
I’d be very wary of Unique in any bottleneck case unless I found published and tested loading data. Even then, I don’t think I ever have, or ever will, use any of the really fast powders (Unique, Bullseye, etc.) in any of my original Winchesters out of fear of a double charge.
Paul
A legitimate concern, Paul. But that’s the reason I batch load anything that could get into my collectible guns. With an old fashioned loading tray and a flashlight to check powder levels all at once. A double charge of Bullseye can be hard to spot if you are looking at only one case. When examining 20 or so in the block, a double charge of even a 3 grain load stands out.
I inherited a fine old Star progressive, modified to incorporate a Dillon case feeder and with dies for several calibers.
I load 38 Special and 357 magnum with it, using Bullseye and Power Pistol. But the only Winchester it goes in is a nifty, rice-powered 73 carbine.
Which, incidentally and contrary to rumor, feeds flawlessly with either length round and even with a mixture of them in the tube. It makes a serious Redneck Assault Rifle.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
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I have not loaded anything with Unique in the past 35-years, but I do use a lot of Bullseye. It excels in the short straight walled pistol cases, and a little goes a long way when is comes time to reload.
1. 9 MM – 115-gr ball with 5.0 grains
2. 38 ACP – 130-gr ball with 4.5 grains
3. 38 Spl – 158 SWC with 5.0 grains
4. 357 Mag – 125-gr JHP with 8.8 grains
5. 38 WCF – 180-gr XTP with 5.5 grains
6. 45 ACP – 230-gr ball with 5.5 grains.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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Are you shooting that .38 Auto load in a Super?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
December 12, 2019
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Chuck said
In P. O. Ackley’s book on page 329 he shows a load for a 25-20 WCF with an 86 gr. bullet and 5.5 grs. of Unique for 1,795 fps.
8.5 grs. of 4227 will get 1,400 fps. 10.5 grs. of 4227 he says will get you 1,725 fps. He also shows 2 loads with a 60 gr. bullet but these he uses 2400, 11.5 gr for 2,200 fps. and 4227, 12.5 grs. for 2,150 fps.
Start low and work up….
Chuck, I have Ackley’s volumes from way back in the day. Colorful and inventive guy, and interesting reading. But Ackley, much like Elmer Keith, seemed to have a bent to maximize velocity from every cartridge they encountered. While that may be a worthwhile endeavor, it gave me great reluctance to jump into any of their loading data.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
April 15, 2005
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Zebulon said
Are you shooting that .38 Auto load in a Super?
No I am not. I am shooting it in my 1917 production Colt Model 1902 Military. I do have a heavier (aftermarket) recoil spring in it though. I installed heavier (Wilson Combat) flat wire recoil springs in nearly all of my semi-auto pistols.
The load I am using for it is .1 grain under the recommended starting load (per Lyman’s 41st edition), and .5 grains under the Max suggested load.
For my Colt 1911A1, I have a 19-lb spring in it versus the standard 16-lb. It enables me to shoot P+ loads without harming the gun.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
Zebulon said
Are you shooting that .38 Auto load in a Super?
No I am not. I am shooting it in my 1917 production Colt Model 1902 Military. I do have a heavier (aftermarket) recoil spring in it though. I installed heavier (Wilson Combat) flat wire recoil springs in nearly all of my semi-auto pistols.
The load I am using for it is .1 grain under the recommended starting load (per Lyman’s 41st edition), and .5 grains under the Max suggested load.
For my Colt 1911A1, I have a 19-lb spring in it versus the standard 16-lb. It enables me to shoot P+ loads without harming the gun.
Bert
The 1902 Military is my favorite of the early Browning/Colt semi autos. Wish I had one that actually went to the Military.
March 31, 2009
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Nevada Paul said
Chuck said
In P. O. Ackley’s book on page 329 he shows a load for a 25-20 WCF with an 86 gr. bullet and 5.5 grs. of Unique for 1,795 fps.
8.5 grs. of 4227 will get 1,400 fps. 10.5 grs. of 4227 he says will get you 1,725 fps. He also shows 2 loads with a 60 gr. bullet but these he uses 2400, 11.5 gr for 2,200 fps. and 4227, 12.5 grs. for 2,150 fps.
Start low and work up….
Chuck, I have Ackley’s volumes from way back in the day. Colorful and inventive guy, and interesting reading. But Ackley, much like Elmer Keith, seemed to have a bent to maximize velocity from every cartridge they encountered. While that may be a worthwhile endeavor, it gave me great reluctance to jump into any of their loading data.
Paul
Not just Ackley and Keith. The other thing is the older powders weren’t as hot as the same powder today. My chrono has found this out many times.
January 20, 2023
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Understood. I have the 1908 Hammer Pocket but without nearly as much condition as your Military. I haven’t shot it beyond a magazine of vintage Western 130 ball. The magazine is, sadly, aftermarket and the retaining slot has been buggered.
My 38 shooter is a bright stainless ELCEN serial prefix, an overrun from the Colt Custom Shop for a distributor order intended for sales South of the Mexican Border. Gaudy? It will blind you on a Sunny day but the barrel is cut to headspace on the case mouth and it’s the most accurate .38 Super I’ve ever had. Back when I still had to requalify to renew my LTC, it was always the gun I used.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
Online
Chuck said
Bert H. said
Zebulon said
Are you shooting that .38 Auto load in a Super?
No I am not. I am shooting it in my 1917 production Colt Model 1902 Military. I do have a heavier (aftermarket) recoil spring in it though. I installed heavier (Wilson Combat) flat wire recoil springs in nearly all of my semi-auto pistols.
The load I am using for it is .1 grain under the recommended starting load (per Lyman’s 41st edition), and .5 grains under the Max suggested load.
For my Colt 1911A1, I have a 19-lb spring in it versus the standard 16-lb. It enables me to shoot P+ loads without harming the gun.
Bert
The 1902 Military is my favorite of the early Browning/Colt semi autos. Wish I had one that actually went to the Military.
Mine did… my dad brought it home from Korea in early 1953.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
Online
Zebulon said
Understood. I have the 1908 Hammer Pocket but without nearly as much condition as your Military. I haven’t shot it beyond a magazine of vintage Western 130 ball. The magazine is, sadly, aftermarket and the retaining slot has been buggered.
My 38 shooter is a bright stainless ELCEN serial prefix, an overrun from the Colt Custom Shop for a distributor order intended for sales South of the Mexican Border. Gaudy? It will blind you on a Sunny day but the barrel is cut to headspace on the case mouth and it’s the most accurate .38 Super I’ve ever had. Back when I still had to requalify to renew my LTC, it was always the gun I used.
Bill,
If you have not seen this, I highly recommend it – Ken Hackathorn Discusses Wilson Combat Flat Wire Recoil Springs – YouTube
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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