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March 31, 2009
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I wasn’t really ready to start this project but things finally came together and I was still waiting on the dies for the 45 EX.
I bought this rifle about 3 months ago and it has taken this long for me to obtain the brass I needed for forming. I had to purchase 405 Basic 3-1/4″ brass in Canada. I lettered the rifle after I bought it and was surprised how long it takes now. I guess I’ve been lucky buying guns that already have letters or are Military and can’t letter. The rile does not letter with the Lyman front sight or the Lyman tang sight but I like them better than the standard sights. Everything else letters. The tang sight has the S underneath. Here is a picture.
So this time the 405 Basic is a larger diameter than the 38 EX brass. Makes for much more work. I sacrificed a couple pieces of brass to find out what size holes I had to drill to form the brass. It takes 6 holes, some of them chamfered, and you have to go in a specific order. The most critical part of the process is to not crack the neck. If you do the brass is trash. Almost any wrinkles or bulges can be pressured out when fire forming. 4 of the 6 holes are to gradually swage the neck. Here is a picture of a piece of aluminum and my bench press I use when doing such work. There are 6 holes that are numbered and at each step you have to go so far into the hole.
Here is a picture of a Factory loaded 38 EX, a new untouched 405 Basic case, a piece of brass that has gone through the process and finally a fire formed piece. This time I can use a 38-55 die to neck the case after firing. But I am having issues with the bullet diameter. I slugged the barrel and the groove diameter is .380″ with the lands at .374″. I have bullets at .375″. 380″ and 381″. When I seat a .375″ bullet it makes insertion into the chamber very tight. But after firing it seems that the forming process has thinned the case neck diameter and bullet insertion is much better. Another thing I had to do was reduce the weight of the bullet from 255 grains to 215 grains. So a quick cut solved that.
November 7, 2015
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Cool! I’m hoping the loading dies won’t be as difficult for this project. What are you using for a bullet?
Mike
March 31, 2009
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TXGunNut said
Cool! I’m hoping the loading dies won’t be as difficult for this project. What are you using for a bullet?
Mike
Mike, I have 3 different bullets to try. I don’t really care much about accuracy. I am hoping to use the .381″. They seem hard and don’t have grease rings. I’m going to use 4198 after fire forming. The .375″ are jacketed soft flat points. Really for modern guns but who knows, they may shoot the best.
November 7, 2015
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Hopefully the .381 bullets will chamber. Is it a cast bullet without lube grooves?
Mike
March 31, 2009
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TXGunNut said
Hopefully the .381 bullets will chamber. Is it a cast bullet without lube grooves?
Mike
Yes and ugly and cheap.
March 31, 2009
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Here is a picture of the case necks through the process. New untouched, sized then fired.
March 31, 2009
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Like I said, I am not organized with this project.
First off you need to use a good die lube when pressing the cases into the holes. You need to make sure the rotating plate is aligned as needed. Whether you want to hit bottom or flow through.
For the first couple of presses you want to use a bullet to get the squeezing started. The bullet will keep the brass from wrinkling or cracking the neck.
Just remember to rotate the plate back to where you don’t hit the plate. If you don’t you will wrinkle the case. Most wrinkles as bad as they seem will be removed when fire forming.
I formed 5 more cases and will shoot them Tuesday if the rain stops. As you can see I got sloppy and ruined 2 more cases and wrinkled and bent a couple. Believe it or not all 5 of these do chamber. We’ll see what happens. I need to send 5 fire formed pieces to Lee Precision. It will take at least 2 firings each.
March 31, 2009
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Yesterday I loaded 5 rounds. I filled one case with FFg then measured how much it took to fill the case to the top. 90 grains, but I didn’t want to fire form with this much so I picked about 60 grains. That meant I needed a filler. I have these fairly dense tubes of cotton that are used for cleaning behind the receiver lugs on bolt action rifles. I cut a few of these to .75″. These allowed the bullet when seated to compress the load.
I picked the smallest diameter bullets I had so they weren’t too hard to get them in the neck. Problem was these are 255 grain bullets and the 38 EX uses a 215 grain bullet. I took a dowel and drilled a hole in one end and inserted a bullet and ground off enough of the bottom to get to 215 grains. Once I had this figured out I just had to push the dowel up against a sander just to the point the wood was about to touch. Picture shows there is still a way to go. The dowel is in a slot on the table so it will be kept perpendicular to the sand paper. The table is plum to the sandpaper.
After getting them to length/weight I chucked them up in my drill press and spun them against a file to chamfer the bottom edge.
I found out the last time when I fire formed my first case that the neck wall thickness got thinner. On the second firing bullet seating should be easier. We’ll see what these do.
November 7, 2015
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Great idea on the bullet fixture, was wondering how you would shorten the bullets while keeping them square and uniform. I’m not surprised the chamber is a bit tight at the case mouth but was hoping that would not be the case.
Mike
March 31, 2009
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Mike, the bullets came out OK but during fire forming it really doesn’t matter. The problem is that during the squeezing operation the necks got thicker. So when the bullets are seated the neck gets too fat for the chamber. After fire forming things get better. Take a close look at the thickness of the necks. The one in the middle is before seating the bullet and the one on the right is after firing.
I’m going to do something similar with the bullets I hope to shoot. They have a larger diameter to match the slug I pushed through the barrel. Nobody makes .380″ bullets that are 115 grain. I have some .380’s and .381″ that are 155 grain. The 38-40’s are actually .401″ and are too heavy also.
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