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As promised, here’s the follow-up episode on barrel length and velocity utilizing 30 WCF in model 94’s and 30US in model 95’s. Was able to take advantage of some nice weather to get out and get some shooting in. Especially enjoyed shooting a couple of deluxe 95’s for the first time. Certainly not a comprehensive study, but looks like the velocity gains in these calibers level off at about 22″.
I’m busy now on the next episode, working on getting a neglected heavy-barreled model 1876 ranch rifle in shooting shape. Mark
May 3, 2020
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Mark
Another informative video, great to see videos that are interesting and myth busting at the same time.
All of my rifle’s I have in the Uk are 20” barrel’s and I can’t see why your findings don’t transfer into modern calibers as well.
looking forward to the shop based videos as much as the shooting ones
thank you for making them
BASC member
November 7, 2015
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Great video, Mark. Love those old 95’s. One possibility to consider is that since Federal and Remington generally use non-canister powders they most likely choose a powder that performs best in the firearms they expect the ammunition to be used in. For the 30-30 they can safely assume almost all will be used in a 20” carbine or rifle so that could explain why the Federal ammo did not perform noticeably better in a longer barrel where a handload with a slower powder may take advantage of the longer barrel. Then again, it may not. That’s the fun of reloading. The flip side of that is Remington’s ammo, hard to say what barrel length they expected consumers to use. Using factory ammo is a good way to remove variables as both performed well in your rifles.
Mike
Mark,
Another great video, and very enlightening! When I make the trip south to come visit you at the ranch, I will bring my high-wall Take Down rifle in 30/40 with its 30-inch barrel to test it. In fact, I plan to bring a few rifles to test, including my 405 WCF high-wall. Do you have a 24-inch Model 1895 in 405 that we can use as a comparison?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Mark,
Another great video, and very enlightening! When I make the trip south to come visit you at the ranch, I will bring my high-wall Take Down rifle in 30/40 with its 30-inch barrel to test it. In fact, I plan to bring a few rifles to test, including my 405 WCF high-wall. Do you have a 24-inch Model 1895 in 405 that we can use as a comparison?
Bert
Would love to be there for that one but I’ll take a video ??
TXGunNut said
Great video, Mark. Love those old 95’s. One possibility to consider is that since Federal and Remington generally use non-canister powders they most likely choose a powder that performs best in the firearms they expect the ammunition to be used in. For the 30-30 they can safely assume almost all will be used in a 20” carbine or rifle so that could explain why the Federal ammo did not perform noticeably better in a longer barrel where a handload with a slower powder may take advantage of the longer barrel. Then again, it may not. That’s the fun of reloading. The flip side of that is Remington’s ammo, hard to say what barrel length they expected consumers to use. Using factory ammo is a good way to remove variables as both performed well in your rifles.
Mike
Mike, I totally agree on the impact powder burn rates have on the barrel length. To maintain the same fps a shorter barrel has to have a faster powder than the longer barrel. Most modern load data is worked up using a 24″ barrel. Now, I know this may not be true for all ammo so you should read the entire section of your manual for that specific cartridge. They tell you barrel length, case and primer used for their data in addition to the powder and charge. In general if the fps does not go up in the longer barrel it is telling you it has burned to it’s max before it left the barrel. Try a slower powder and see what happens. Loading manuals list the fast powders first and then the slower powders in order of burn rate.
November 7, 2015
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Chuck-
One problem with loading manuals is many of them use test barrels and universal fixtures in carefully controlled conditions. I agree with reading the info available and I like using multiple manuals but the best data available are the ones you observe from your loads in your firearm. Mark’s excellent video illustrates what happens with real guns in real conditions. I’m often amazed at how well many of today’s factory rounds perform in a wide variety of firearms under a wide variety of conditions.
Mike
Bert H. said
Mark,
Another great video, and very enlightening! When I make the trip south to come visit you at the ranch, I will bring my high-wall Take Down rifle in 30/40 with its 30-inch barrel to test it. In fact, I plan to bring a few rifles to test, including my 405 WCF high-wall. Do you have a 24-inch Model 1895 in 405 that we can use as a comparison?
Bert
Bert,
Yes, I’ve got a couple of 405’s to choose from. If we’re going to be doing much testing with full-power 405’s, I think I’ll move up the episode on fitting a Silvers recoil pad I’ve been meaning to get to.
Erin and I will be looking forward to your visit. If you make it down this spring, don’t forget to throw in a varmint gun for squeeks and rock chucks. Mark
November 7, 2015
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Mark Douglas said
Bert,
Yes, I’ve got a couple of 405’s to choose from. If we’re going to be doing much testing with full-power 405’s, I think I’ll move up the episode on fitting a Silvers recoil pad I’ve been meaning to get to.
You mean the 405 isn’t a varmint gun? I hear those rock chucks can be dangerous when wounded! Can’t be too careful, use enough gun!
Mike
TXGunNut said
You mean the 405 isn’t a varmint gun? I hear those rock chucks can be dangerous when wounded! Can’t be too careful, use enough gun!
Mike
While it might make for some spectacular video, I don’t believe that shooting varmints with a 405 WCF would be “pleasant” experience… unless Mark has an unruly herd of Cape Buffalo that needs thinning
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
While it might make for some spectacular video, I don’t believe that shooting varmints with a 405 WCF would be “pleasant” experience… unless Mark has an unruly herd of Cape Buffalo that needs thinning
Haha now that’s funny!!
RickC
Thank you very much for this last installment Mark, I thoroughly enjoy your videos.
I have to add that the setting of your shooting vids seems out of this earth for a European 
(although I’m blessed ith my own shooting range at the farm)
Eagerly awaiting your joint shooting venture with Bert (and Single Shots, my favorite)
I agree with the others Mark. I hope the 2 of you are able to record some footage of the comparison you’re discussing here.
Thank you for another great video!
TXGunNut said
Chuck-One problem with loading manuals is many of them use test barrels and universal fixtures in carefully controlled conditions. I agree with reading the info available and I like using multiple manuals but the best data available are the ones you observe from your loads in your firearm. Mark’s excellent video illustrates what happens with real guns in real conditions. I’m often amazed at how well many of today’s factory rounds perform in a wide variety of firearms under a wide variety of conditions.
Mike
I really like Mark’s videos. I can’t wait for the next one. This one shows that the powder burned out at a speed that was all used up at about the length of the shorter barrels. I have experienced loads that do in fact change speeds when the barrel length is different. One example is a couple of 45-90’s I load. I have to sort the brass because the highwall doesn’t like the rim thickness changes on some of the Bertram brass. I load the ammo so it will cycle through my 86. The added 4″ on my 85 barrel shoots 100 fps faster. The Sierra manual does not have info for the 45-90 but it does for the 30 WCF. They specify the make and model of the gun used for the testing. Their loads are for a 20″ barrel. Shoot these in a 24″ barrel and you may or may not get an increase in speed. If you pick the data of the slowest burning powder the chances of an increase might go up with the longer barrel.
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Chuck. You just gave me an idea for some new recipes to try for my 32 Special project.
Mike
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