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April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
I’ve been reloading over 40 years and have only been affected by one component “shortage”. Once was enough! I don’t have a huge stockpile, somedays I just hope I live long enough to use most of it because my heirs won’t have a clue. With the powder availability uncertainty I may have to get creative several years down the road. It seems the IMR4198 powder I’ve grown fond of has been “replaced” by H4198. I don’t know what the future holds for BE, 4227 and 2400 but supply on hand would certainly guide any major load development projects.
I’ve been known to offer a homeless M-word or even occasionally an R-word a place to stay now and then. My Colts are either social equipment or replicas, I can’t afford the tuition to get educated on them!
Mike
Both IMR 4198 and H 4198 are still available. That stated, they are interchangeable for all of the cartridges I reload.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Good to know. I was poking around on the Hodgdon site and they listed loads for H4198 but not IMR4198. I only checked a few cartridges. IMR4198 also showed to be out of stock. Then again, a few of the new powders were out of stock as well. I have a few pounds of each. Several years ago I had a rifle that seemed to prefer H4350 over IMR4350. I’m glad it wasn’t a marked difference, have lots of IMR4350 on hand.
Have you been able to find 4227 and 2400?
Mike
September 19, 2014
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Mike, For info and personal use–H4350 and IMR 4350 do vary some. Those powders are often used in intense loadings and the slight difference can make a difference. H4198 and IMR 4198 MAY (or may not) vary but their use generally is in lower intensity loadings and don’t make a noticeable difference in my experience. Tim
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Good to know. I was poking around on the Hodgdon site and they listed loads for H4198 but not IMR4198. I only checked a few cartridges. IMR4198 also showed to be out of stock. Then again, a few of the new powders were out of stock as well. I have a few pounds of each. Several years ago I had a rifle that seemed to prefer H4350 over IMR4350. I’m glad it wasn’t a marked difference, have lots of IMR4350 on hand.
Have you been able to find 4227 and 2400?
Mike
Mike,
I did just very recently buy a 1 lb. can of A-2400… for $77 out the door!
I am using it exclusively for the 38 WCF, and at 22 grains per cartridge, I am good to go for 300+ cartridges.
I am not planning to restock any IMR 4227. I primarily used it many years ago for the 22 Hornet, but these days, I have fully converted to Hodgdon’s Lil’Gun for my Hornets.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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tim tomlinson said
Mike, For info and personal use–H4350 and IMR 4350 do vary some. Those powders are often used in intense loadings and the slight difference can make a difference. H4198 and IMR 4198 MAY (or may not) vary but their use generally is in lower intensity loadings and don’t make a noticeable difference in my experience. Tim
Tim,
I use IMR 4198 for one of my 222 Rem Mag loads. Hodgdon lists the Max load at 25.1 grains with a 35-grain bullet, whereas the Max load for the H 4198 is 25.3 grains. The .2 grain difference is insignificant. Generally speaking, the two different 4198 powers are interchangeable, but each may require fine tuning for a particular cartridge use.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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The IMR and Hodgdon 4198 are not the same. In Bert’s example they are close. But here is what Winchester says about using the Burn Rate Chart as a loading guide.
April 15, 2005
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For reference purposes, the information below is from Hodgdon’s Reload Center data base.
The cartridge I selected is the 45-70 with a 300 grain JSP bullet. As can be seen, the overall difference between the H4198 and IMR 4198 is relatively small. At recommended starting loads there is just a 1.3 grain (2.4%) difference and at Max, it is just 1.8 grains (4.6%) difference.
When loading for black powder rifles, the difference is smaller yet. Note all of the different powders that can be used to replicate black powder pressure and velocities.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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I like burn rate charts but I will always start out with a published load for that powder. All a burn rate chart tells me is if I should try to find a published load for a given powder when it is close in burn rate to another powder that is working well for me. Now that Winchester is under the Hodgdon umbrella I suspect their ranking of Winchester powders has merit. IMR4198 is working well for me, it’s a few bucks cheaper than H4198 around here if I need any more. I have the H198 sitting on the shelf so I’ll use it for something. I saw some 4227 on the shelf at Cabela’s this evening.
Mike
March 31, 2009
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Bert H. said
For reference purposes, the information below is from Hodgdon’s Reload Center data base.
The cartridge I selected is the 45-70 with a 300 grain JSP bullet. As can be seen, the overall difference between the H4198 and IMR 4198 is relatively small. At recommended starting loads there is just a 1.3 grain (2.4%) difference and at Max, it is just 1.8 grains (4.6%) difference.When loading for black powder rifles, the difference is smaller yet. Note all of the different powders that can be used to replicate black powder pressure and velocities.
Bert
Bert, I like this website because it shows the pressures too. I wish it had more of our older calibers. Although the burn rate chart for the 4198 powders works out close for this caliber don’t rely on it for all powders and calibers. I have another loading manual that talks about this but I can’t remember which one?
April 15, 2005
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Chuck,
They may have them, but have not yet added to the website. It certainly would not hurt to contact them and ask the question.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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TXGunNut said
I like burn rate charts but I will always start out with a published load for that powder. All a burn rate chart tells me is if I should try to find a published load for a given powder when it is close in burn rate to another powder that is working well for me. Now that Winchester is under the Hodgdon umbrella I suspect their ranking of Winchester powders has merit. IMR4198 is working well for me, it’s a few bucks cheaper than H4198 around here if I need any more. I have the H198 sitting on the shelf so I’ll use it for something. I saw some 4227 on the shelf at Cabela’s this evening.
Mike
Mike, I think IMR 4198 is one of the most versatile powders for our old rifles. Like I said before, buy Frank Barnes book, Cartridges of the World, and you will have at least one powder charge for all of the Winchester calibers. Often it will be using 4198.
November 7, 2015
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Chuck-
I’ve been enjoying Barnes’ book for awhile, I had to pause my perusal of it to read JWA’s Model 75 book. I’m currently wading thru the wildcat section, makes great bedtime reading! And yes, 4198 was Barnes’ favorite for many of the cartridges we enjoy. It has replaced 5744 (MLV’s favorite) in many of my loading projects because 4198 delivers nearly exactly the performance of 5744 with a fraction of the cleaning effort. I’m beginning to think 4198 is also a bit less fussy than 5744 but with my small sample it’s too early to draw any conclusions.
Mike
March 20, 2010
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Gents,
Working on some 38-40 for my 1892. In the past I had purchased bullets (hard cast) but have since cast my own using Accurate Mold I ordered a long time ago. Using 20:1 Lead with RCBS dies. In seating these bullets I am getting a ring/groove in the top of the bullet because the seating stem is conical shape and the bullet ogive is a bit wider where it bears against the outer perimeter of the seating cone. No doubt it is likely due to the softer lead.
I havent found an alternative with regards to the seating stem at present. Was unsure how this will affect performance at up to 150 yards or if it would make a difference. Any suggestions or solutions?
Thanks
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
April 15, 2005
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Chris,
I sincerely doubt that the slight ring you are getting on the bullet is going to have any effect on the down-range accuracy.
I am reloading my 38-40 cartridges with an Ideal 310 tool & dies. The 310 seating die has two different seating stems, one for jacketed (conical) bullets, and one for cast lead flat-nose bullets.
Bert
p.s. What load (powder & charge) are you using?
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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1892takedown said
Gents,
Working on some 38-40 for my 1892. In the past I had purchased bullets (hard cast) but have since cast my own using Accurate Mold I ordered a long time ago. Using 20:1 Lead with RCBS dies. In seating these bullets I am getting a ring/groove in the top of the bullet because the seating stem is conical shape and the bullet ogive is a bit wider where it bears against the outer perimeter of the seating cone. No doubt it is likely due to the softer lead.
I havent found an alternative with regards to the seating stem at present. Was unsure how this will affect performance at up to 150 yards or if it would make a difference. Any suggestions or solutions?Thanks
Chris
Chris-
Seating stem can be modified using bedding compound or another epoxy, just use a bullet nose to shape the bedding compound or epoxy.
Mike
March 20, 2010
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Thanks Bert for the comments, was thinking the same thing regarding the performance. Im using IMR 4227. Since these are new bullets, Im going to see what charge works best in the next day or so.
Mike, Ive been reading similar online regarding using bedding compound or epoxy or something similar. Thanks for the comments.
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
November 7, 2015
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Chris-
As you may have noticed I have not used that modification on my RCBS Cowboy dies used for these cartridges. The stem used for sizing is usually aluminum and things generally work themselves out after a few rounds. These bullets are wheelweight alloy cast in Accurate’s 40-180C mould sized to .401”
Are you going to be able to make it to Denton this weekend?
Mike
March 20, 2010
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TXGunNut said
Chris-
As you may have noticed I have not used that modification on my RCBS Cowboy dies used for these cartridges. The stem used for sizing is usually aluminum and things generally work themselves out after a few rounds. These bullets are wheelweight alloy cast in Accurate’s 40-180C mould sized to .401”
Are you going to be able to make it to Denton this weekend?
Mike
Im using the same mold (Accurate 40-180C). I figured since I was using the softer lead that was part of the issue with the ring. The difference may also be that you have the “Cowboy dies”, and I have the standard steel dies (RCBS #35605).
I will not be making it to Denton. We are working cattle on Monday so I have some prep work to do at the rancho. I will likely make it to Tulsa though.
Thanks,
Chris
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
March 3, 2020
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A bit late to this party, but I shoot a ton of 44-40 and 38-40 through my 92’s. For the 38-40, sing a Badman 180gr cast bullet, I get great results with both Herco and 700x. I also happen to live close to a Bear Creek bullet distributor, and so have begun using those bullets. They have a molly coating, and leave the guns remarkably clean.
November 19, 2006
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1892takedown said
TXGunNut said
Chris-
As you may have noticed I have not used that modification on my RCBS Cowboy dies used for these cartridges. The stem used for sizing is usually aluminum and things generally work themselves out after a few rounds. These bullets are wheelweight alloy cast in Accurate’s 40-180C mould sized to .401”
Are you going to be able to make it to Denton this weekend?
Mike
Im using the same mold (Accurate 40-180C). I figured since I was using the softer lead that was part of the issue with the ring. The difference may also be that you have the “Cowboy dies”, and I have the standard steel dies (RCBS #35605).
I will not be making it to Denton. We are working cattle on Monday so I have some prep work to do at the rancho. I will likely make it to Tulsa though.
Thanks,
Chris
Chris – wow – you are leading a very different life than me. Very cool – I’m envious.
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