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April 15, 2005
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Lou,
It does, and some of it is interesting & odd.
Thanks! 
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bert-
I honestly don’t know…
This came from my trolling the McCracken digital library for M70 related stuff… I’m sure you noticed that I “oversimplified” my description, as the second pic is actually a 1938 extraction of centerfire calibers that had been discontinued since the 1930 version. Still it showed the M54 bore specifications from 1930, which is why I posted it…
I wish the McCracken library had the time/personnel to make their holdings useful/accessible… Insofar as I can tell it’s hopeless unless you have the time (and influence) to be permitted to go through the MS20 (WRACO records) yourself… If only there were a knowledgeable Winchester “historian” who could take a Sabbatical and spend a year bringing order to what (I think) is a disorganized mess…
Lou
Lou-
I’m glad I’m not the only one having trouble accessing the incredible amount of data that appears to be accessible online. In my case I’m sure it is mostly the result of my IT shortcomings but it looks like a fantastic resource. While you’re at it could you see what you can do about MS63? There’s a needle in that haystack that might be a big help for something I’m working on.
Mike
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bert-
Given that those pages were in the middle of a bunch of scanned blueprints of ammunition test barrels (pressure test barrels, accuracy barrels, etc.), I suspect they came from the Gauge Shop (where the test barrels were made) rather than the Barrel Shop. Or else they were just miss filed… 
Still… I’d hope they accurately reflect the bore specifications of the barrels that went onto production guns. Which ones are “odd”? I think the M54/70 specs are accurate but I don’t know a Blessed thing about anything else… 
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bert-
Given that those pages were in the middle of a bunch of scanned blueprints of ammunition test barrels (pressure test barrels, accuracy barrels, etc.), I suspect they came from the Gauge Shop (where the test barrels were made) rather than the Barrel Shop. Or else they were just miss filed…
Still… I’d hope they accurately reflect the bore specifications of the barrels that went onto production guns. Which ones are “odd”? I think the M54/70 specs are accurate but I don’t know a Blessed thing about anything else…
Best,
Lou
Lou,
What I find odd is the Model 74 22 Short barrel specifications in relationship to all of the other models chambered for the 22 Short cartridge. Additionally, in Post #20 there is a gross error (or a typo) for the 40/110 Exp. It states .3055″ for the “Rifling Dia.” where it should actually be .4055″.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Bert-
Good catch!!! I thought I was the only person with “keyboarding” (typewriter) issues… Apparently not…
There was a discussion recently (outside this forum) about some (questionable) pre-64 M70 barrels in 9 M/M that were not even close to 6-groove 1″ in 12″ twist… Something like 5-groove 1″ in 15″ twist. I used these factory prints to suggest (supporting their already drawn conclusion) that they weren’t legit… So I was curious if you’d found something indicating that the documents I posted were not consistent with actual factory production of any chambering listed (given that I think these are Gauge Shop documents NOT Barrel Shop).
Did Winchester ever make a 5-groove barrel???
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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Louis Luttrell said
Bert-
Good catch!!! I thought I was the only person with “keyboarding” (typewriter) issues… Apparently not…
There was a discussion recently (outside this forum) about some (questionable) pre-64 M70 barrels in 9 M/M that were not even close to 6-groove 1″ in 12″ twist… Something like 5-groove 1″ in 15″ twist. I used these factory prints to suggest (supporting their already drawn conclusion) that they weren’t legit… So I was curious if you’d found something indicating that the documents I posted were not consistent with actual factory production of any chambering listed (given that I think these are Gauge Shop documents NOT Barrel Shop).
Did Winchester ever make a 5-groove barrel???
Lou
Lou,
As both and Engineer (retired) and a Technical writer, I tend to be sharp-eyed and critical as it applies to technical specification data. Accordingly, the information for the Model 74 22 Short does not make technical sense to me.
I do not know if Winchester ever used 5-groove rifling, but I suspect not. I would ask this question to Mark, as he is the one person I know that has knowledge of the barrel making process.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 9, 2002
Online
Bert H. said
Louis Luttrell said
Bert-
Good catch!!! I thought I was the only person with “keyboarding” (typewriter) issues… Apparently not…
There was a discussion recently (outside this forum) about some (questionable) pre-64 M70 barrels in 9 M/M that were not even close to 6-groove 1″ in 12″ twist… Something like 5-groove 1″ in 15″ twist. I used these factory prints to suggest (supporting their already drawn conclusion) that they weren’t legit… So I was curious if you’d found something indicating that the documents I posted were not consistent with actual factory production of any chambering listed (given that I think these are Gauge Shop documents NOT Barrel Shop).
Did Winchester ever make a 5-groove barrel???
Lou
Lou,
As both and Engineer (retired) and a Technical writer, I tend to be sharp-eyed and critical as it applies to technical specification data. Accordingly, the information for the Model 74 22 Short does not make technical sense to me.
I do not know if Winchester ever used 5-groove rifling, but I suspect not. I would ask this question to Mark, as he is the one person I know that has knowledge of the barrel making process.
Bert
I’m not sure if this applies here to you’re Question Lou, but Winchester did make a 5 groove barrel for their M-1873, as far as the First model and most of the second model’s were concerned, if not all of the second models. Bob can verify that if need be, before they went to the 6 groove barrel for all of the third models.
Tony
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