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I have recently acquired a 2nd variation Winder Musket in .22 short. Is it normal for the hammer to go to the half-cock position when the action is closed? I have read posts concerning this, but it was not clear if they were dealing with a Winchester, much less a Winder Musket. I also acquired another barrel in long rifle, which should allow me to shoot at longer distances. She’s a beauty!
Graham
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Yes, a safety feature which I like; the result of a fly added to the hammer on the coil-spring actions.
Thanks. That was the answer I was hoping for! I suppose it was somewhat of a reflex after shooting my Browning high wall.
Hello Graham,
What is the serial number on your 2nd variation Winder Musket, as I would like to add it to my survey. Thus far, just 22.5% of the 2nd variation Winder Muskets were made in 22 Short, which makes it a fair bit more uncommon.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
The serial number is 121177. The second barrel I acquired has the exact same fore-end stock and sight, the only difference being that it is in long rifle. I thought that might come in handy if I ran across one that had been sporterized. I cringe at the thought of some misguided person chopping a beautiful rifle like that! Do you know what the twist rates are on those barrels? My plan is to change to the long rifle barrel in order to shoot out to 200 yards. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks Bert!
Graham
I had that serial number in my survey already, but thank you for posting it.
The 22 Short barrels were made with a 1:20 twist, and the 22 Long Rifle barrels with a 1:16 twist.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
I had that serial number in my survey already, but thank you for posting it.The 22 Short barrels were made with a 1:20 twist, and the 22 Long Rifle barrels with a 1:16 twist.
Bert
Bert, I believe the short barrels in the 1885’s were 24 twist based on my records. I double checked an NOS one that I have which is dated 27 and it is 24″. I have a Winchester document that show’s the 22 short 24″ twist was superseded by the 20″ twist on March 11, 1942.
Steve
seewin said
Bert, I believe the short barrels in the 1885’s were 24 twist based on my records. I double checked an NOS one that I have which is dated 27 and it is 24″. I have a Winchester document that show’s the 22 short 24″ twist was superseded by the 20″ twist on March 11, 1942.
Steve
Steve,
To the very best of mu knowledge, the Model 1885 Single Shot 22 Short barrels were 24-inches long (standard length), with a 1:20 twist, just like the Model 1890. Ned Schwing also makes specific mention of the bore, rifling, and twist rate Winchester used for the Model 1890 and 1906 .22 rim fire barrels in his book… he also states 1:20 for the 22 Short. I would like to see your records. If correct, a lot of older reference documents are wrong (which would not be a novel occurrence).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert, just checked my Winder musket rifle also. It is 24″ twist as well. Now my curiosity is up. I will check my 22 Short Schuetzen tomorrow night. Also just dropped you an email.
Steve
Steve and Bert,
My notes indicate a 1:20 twist for .22 short also. I have several Winder muskets in .22 short but am not home to measure them. My notes came from a Winchester rifling specification sheet at Cody but of course the direct observation and measurement trumps that. Direct observation is always better.
I am also interested in the resulting information as it directly affects other Winchester .22 short rifles I am researching which, according to the factory drawings, were rifled to the same specification as the S.S. rifle. Since I never actually measured them I assumed they were 1:20 based on the rifling sheet but they could be 1:24……
Very interesting, please let us know what you find – thanks!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
I checked my 22 short Hiwall Schuetzen rifle tonight. It is indeed a 24 twist. Also checked a couple of 22 short model 57’s. They are 24 twist as well. Just for grins, checked a model 57 22 LR, and as expected, it is 16 twist. I cannot explain the conflicting info between all the sources. I do know the 1930 document show’s 24 twist for the single shot 1885, and models 56/57. I have several other Winchester documents & blueprints that show a 20″ twist for the short! The oldest is dated 1899.
Steve
Hmmm… the Model 1885 Single Shot was officially discontinued in June of 1920. We I get home from my current work trip, I will need to get all of my 22 Short chambered Model 1885 rifles & muskets out of the safe and check them.
I too find it really odd that Winchester published conflicting information for the 22 Short twist rate. Another one of those mysteries to ponder!
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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