Avatar
Please consider registering
Guest
Search
Forum Scope




Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
Register Lost password?
sp_Feed sp_PrintTopic sp_TopicIcon
Winchester model 52 Sporter
sp_NewTopic Add Topic
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
July 20, 2022 - 1:40 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I have a chance to inspect a model 52 B Sporter tomorrow for possible purchase.The Serial Number is 7724x. My on line research indicates this rifle was made in 1953 but that Cody has no records in this range, is this correct?
My understanding is 1953 was the last of the B guns, is this also correct?
How many Sporters were made? Do I understand correctly that the B guns were not drilled at the factory for scope mounts?
I would like suggestions on what I should look for in particular on This rifle. 
In order to try and figure out if the price is fair, what would this rifle in 90% condition go for in todays market. I have done some research online, but that does not always reflect reality. I will post pictures if I end up with this rifle.

Thanks Phil

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
July 20, 2022 - 2:22 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

 

“B” Sporting models continued to be produced after “C” target models were in full production, so this ser. no. would be about right for ’53.  Hard to believe, isn’t it, that the factory could be so backward as regards scope mounting, even on an over-priced, top of the line, model like the Sporting 52B? 

90% cond. would be excellent for a target model, but most Sporting models seem to have survived in better cond. (suggesting their carriage-trade owners didn’t subject them to a lot of use).  I think the prices on these are insane (compare workmanship with a G&H, Sedgley, Hoffman, etc.), but maybe 4 or 4-1/2 Gs? 

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
July 20, 2022 - 3:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Thanks for your response. I just need to check and see if the barrel was drilled for mounts. I am concerned that this may be the case. It makes sense that these Sporting rifles were well kept, but it sure seemed crazy as you mentioned that this late they were not coming Pre drilled for mounts. Especially when as I have read, the C being manufactured at the same time were being drilled and the model 70’s were drilled from the late 40’s. Did Winchester offer to drill barrels as an option especially on the B Style. What is the latest B SN recorded? 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
July 20, 2022 - 12:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Phil Carr said
Thanks for your response. I just need to check and see if the barrel was drilled for mounts. I am concerned that this may be the case. It makes sense that these Sporting rifles were well kept, but it sure seemed crazy as you mentioned that this late they were not coming Pre drilled for mounts. Especially when as I have read, the C being manufactured at the same time were being drilled and the model 70’s were drilled from the late 40’s. Did Winchester offer to drill barrels as an option especially on the B Style. What is the latest B SN recorded? 

  

Actually, one that HAS already been drilled is what you should be looking for, because that “damage” should drop the price by about 1 G.  Otherwise, if you buy an undrilled B, you have a conversation piece, not a useful hunting rifle.  Don’t follow my sad example: I bought an undrilled B some 40 yrs ago (before prices had gone completely berserk) fully intending to have it drilled whatever the consequences, but after hearing others express horror over my plan, I lost my nerve.  Held on to it about 5 yrs, then traded it without having fired it once.

Reliable ser. no. records are not available after 1949.  Houze reported B Sporting numbers well into the 80,000 range, mixed up as I said, with “C” numbers.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1765
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
July 20, 2022 - 3:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

For a couple bucks, Winchester would, in fact, drill and tap a M52-B on special order, but there are no records, short of an original bill of sale, to prove a factory job. You are better off searching for a M52-C Sporter, the King of Winchester 22 rifles. Also, the most expensive. Very few were made. Maybe 1,000. I had a “C” many years ago, but foolishly traded t off. Never even fired it. When considering a Sporter, make sure it is a 100% rifle. Many were altered to fit an individual owners needs. Buy the best you can afford, but do not buy someone els’es hack job. You are looking at a $4,000-$6,000 rifle.   Big Larry

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
July 20, 2022 - 4:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Headed out to look at the rifle. Price seems fair. What a shame records are missing for this serial number as well as others.

Is there a book that is recommended for Winchester 22 rifles. 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
July 20, 2022 - 5:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Phil Carr said
Headed out to look at the rifle. Price seems fair. What a shame records are missing for this serial number as well as others.

Is there a book that is recommended for Winchester 22 rifles. 

  

For 52s, there’s only one, now OP & selling for $200 or more:   Herbert Houze’s Winchester “Model 52.”  Best available, though hard to use because of the way the info is scattered about, & mixed up with dozens of unhelpful factory memos apparently included to increase page count.  Some fundamental questions like “why was the first variant (what we now call the Slowlock) designed to cock on closing,” which most American shooters dislike, aren’t even addressed.

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
July 20, 2022 - 5:24 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Big Larry said Buy the best you can afford, but do not buy someone els’es hack job. You are looking at a $4,000-$6,000 rifle.   Big Larry
  

I agree with that, Larry, but wouldn’t consider a B, or earlier model, professionally D&Td to be a hack job; I’d consider that an inexcusable factory oversight had been corrected.  IF the B I referred to previously had been drilled, I’d probably still have it, & for sure, I wouldn’t have let it go without shooting it!

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1765
Member Since:
December 31, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 20, 2022 - 8:04 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

I have to disagree. Any rifle or pistol with extra holes has been swiss cheesed and to me, an astute collector, not worth owning. It may well be a gun you are forever making excuses for. I have some 192 guns and not one has been modified. Too many unmodified guns around. Big Larryswiss+cheese.jpgImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 20, 2022 - 10:15 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Looked at the 52. It is a nice gun but has been drilled like the C style but also has two holes on the barrel. I guess for a rear sight. Priced at $2700 out the door this may be over priced I am gathering?

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
July 20, 2022 - 11:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Ghostrider said
Looked at the 52. It is a nice gun but has been drilled like the C style but also has two holes on the barrel. I guess for a rear sight. Priced at $2700 out the door this may be over priced I am gathering?

  

Does it still have the original Lyman 48 rcvr. sight?  Can’t figure purpose of 2 holes on the brl.–why use a rear sight if it was scoped, & also provided with a rcvr. sight.  Someone intending to mount a target-type scope might have used the holes on the brl for attaching the forward block, & the holes in the rcvr. for the rear block.

Whether $2700 is overpriced or not depends on what you’re planning to do with it.  If you’re serious about hunting with it, this gun makes more sense than a 4 or 5 G gun you’d be nervous about using.  (Or at least I would.)  If you’re looking for a safe-queen to show off to friends, this isn’t it.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
July 21, 2022 - 12:44 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Yes it does have the original receiver sight. You may be correct. Possibly that is what the forward screws in the barrel was for a target scope front mount.

EE994988-BABB-4047-BAA9-66D8C01002C0.jpegImage Enlarger0735CDD0-57BF-439C-9986-49AF6489B4BA.jpegImage Enlarger

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
July 21, 2022 - 1:36 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Ghostrider said
Yes it does have the original receiver sight. You may be correct. Possibly that is what the forward screws in the barrel was for a target scope front mount. 

Wow–somebody must have bought a new drill-press & wanted to see what it could do!  The standard rcvr. mounted hunting scope required only 3 holes–two in the ring, one in the bridge.  Target scopes required 4–either in the brl. alone, or the brl. & the ring, which was the way it was done at Springfield Armory for 1903 Sniper rifles & the Model 1922. 

I think the best way to scope this rifle would be with a Lyman, Unertl, or Fecker Small-Game scope, these being still quite popular in the ’50s.  That would leave the holes in the bridge unused, but the gun is what it is.  This gun obviously has “problems,” but they provide a means of negotiating a better price.  Collectors like Larry won’t touch it, so it’s an opportunity to acquire a Sporting Model at a half-way reasonable price.  I’d offer about $2200, but wouldn’t want to go above $2500

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
January 27, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
14
July 21, 2022 - 4:09 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Thank you all for the reality check sometimes the heart overrides the brain. I will own one someday just probably not this one. I’m not a purest so to speak I like to own a few nice guns but want to shoot and hunt all of them. If the price is right I don’t mind a few warts. I have just learned a few lessons like ask questions up front as it is too late once you buy it.
Also I don’t want to over pay and hope in 10 years I can get my money back. I prefer to pay a price that is fair and if I keep the gun nice and decide a few years later it no longer holds my interest  I could get my money back understanding the market can change.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
September 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
15
July 21, 2022 - 12:59 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Ghostrider:

 

I think you’re wise to pass on this one unless the seller is very flexible on price. I’ve seen exponentially more non-factory drilled sporters than correct and unaltered examples. I don’t mind extra holes but feel the price should reflect and to me the value on this one would be closer to $1750-$2000. It could bring more at auction or with time, but I wouldn’t be confident enough to gamble on gaining a break even return for more than investment than that. 

I have a correct B that is not drilled and have the good fortune of strong eye sight, so I shoot the peep with pleasure. 

I intend to pick up a C and scope it when the opportunity presents itself. The reason I’ve dragged my feet on the C until now is the stock design. I don’t like the aesthetics of the rollover cheek piece on the C’s stock. 

With effort and patience – a correct high condition (95%+) example can be found for not much more than what the rifle in discussion is priced at. 

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
16
July 21, 2022 - 2:13 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

jsgwoodsman said
I intend to pick up a C and scope it when the opportunity presents itself. The reason I’ve dragged my feet on the C until now is the stock design. I don’t like the aesthetics of the rollover cheek piece on the C’s stock.

Neither do I, though even if I loved it, they’re FAR out of my price-range. (Plus, I’d rather put that money in a good 2nd-hand 4X4!)  But I’m skeptical he’ll find an unaltered 95% “B” for under 4 Gs, unless he runs into someone who’s owned the gun a good while, & doesn’t want to put it in auction, or consign to a dealer, like you might find (if you were very lucky) at a small local show. Such a gun at a major show would be snapped up quickly by another dealer.  Even at $2700, I think the “Swiss cheese” gun would sell on Gunbroker, the fool’s paradise.

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
September 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
17
July 21, 2022 - 4:55 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

clarence said

jsgwoodsman said

I intend to pick up a C and scope it when the opportunity presents itself. The reason I’ve dragged my feet on the C until now is the stock design. I don’t like the aesthetics of the rollover cheek piece on the C’s stock.

Neither do I, though even if I loved it, they’re FAR out of my price-range. (Plus, I’d rather put that money in a good 2nd-hand 4X4!)  But I’m skeptical he’ll find an unaltered 95% “B” for under 4 Gs, unless he runs into someone who’s owned the gun a good while, & doesn’t want to put it in auction, or consign to a dealer, like you might find (if you were very lucky) at a small local show. Such a gun at a major show would be snapped up quickly by another dealer.  Even at $2700, I think the “Swiss cheese” gun would sell on Gunbroker, the fool’s paradise.

  

I have had the good fortune to find 3 B’s in the past 4-5 years that were clean and correct for sub $3500 – of course 2 of those times my play money was otherwise earmarked. The one I purchased recently is a clean unaltered example and it cost less than the asking price of the op’s topic rifle. BUT, I realize that’s not the rule nor the common occurrence. 

For clarity’s sake (since I see that I wasn’t particular clear) I meant to imply that a nice and correct B can be found for about $3k with some effort and patience. My idea of effort and patience involves searching all over the web multiple times a day, automatic notifications, an extensive network of collectors and hoarders, following gun shops, etc. etc. and then still intending to have to wait for years. Most guys would just pay an extra grand or two and be done with it. 

A C-Sporter on the other hand… I haven’t seen one of those for under $4k for years.  Not any that I trusted to be correct and original anyway!

Avatar
NY
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4310
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
18
July 21, 2022 - 6:52 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

jsgwoodsman said My idea of effort and patience involves searching all over the web multiple times a day, automatic notifications, an extensive network of collectors and hoarders, following gun shops, etc. etc. and then still intending to have to wait for years. Most guys would just pay an extra grand or two and be done with it. 

  

If you did all that, your reward was richly deserved!  I wouldn’t have the patience or the skill–the limit of my ability is creating saved searches on ebay & GB, & waiting until I’m notified.  In fact, I’m stupid to continue bothering with GB at all, when I see messed-up guns, peddled by AHs who won’t respond to a reasonable question, sell for premium prices; not a rare event either, but happening all the time.

Avatar
Shenandoah Valley of Virginia
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
September 19, 2021
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
19
July 21, 2022 - 11:32 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

Ghostrider said
Headed out to look at the rifle. Price seems fair. What a shame records are missing for this serial number as well as others.

Is there a book that is recommended for Winchester 22 rifles. 

  

I picked up a soft cover copy of Houze’s Model 52 book on Fleabay for 95 bucks about a year ago – keep checking and you might catch a break like I did. Other folks have mentioned the shortcomings of the book, but I did learn some things.

""The 30-06 is never a mistake". Colonel Townsend Whelen

Avatar
Member
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
September 21, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
20
July 22, 2022 - 3:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_QuotePost
sp_ReportPost

clarence said

If you did all that, your reward was richly deserved!  I wouldn’t have the patience or the skill–the limit of my ability is creating saved searches on ebay & GB, & waiting until I’m notified.  In fact, I’m stupid to continue bothering with GB at all, when I see messed-up guns, peddled by AHs who won’t respond to a reasonable question, sell for premium prices; not a rare event either, but happening all the time.

  

I haven’t bought a gun off GB for years – but can’t help but look daily. It is a frustrating place (as a buyer) to search for guns. 

Forum Timezone: UTC 0
Most Users Ever Online: 628
Currently Online: tsbccut
Guest(s) 26
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
1873man: 5178
clarence: 4310
TXGunNut: 3893
Chuck: 3509
steve004: 3098
twobit: 2843
Maverick: 2016
JWA: 1827
Big Larry: 1765
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 16
Topics: 10412
Posts: 89723

 

Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1431
Members: 11501
Moderators: 3
Admins: 3
Navigation