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Guy need a little help. A good friend of mine bought this gun https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/84/3447. Every thing looks right to me but not sure. Any opinions on this would help. Thanks again.
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[email protected] said
Every thing looks right to me but not sure.
If he’s already bought it, it’s a little late to have second thoughts about it. The price?
Clarence I get that was not asking for a he bought it to late comment. He is ok if there is something wrong. If something is wrong with it he does not want to pass it on to the next guy down the road. It was just too neat for him to pass up. Not like the ….22 WRF Jr 67. He gave 1200 at the hammer before buyer premium.
[email protected] said
Clarence I get that was not asking for a he bought it to late comment. He is ok if there is something wrong. If something is wrong with it he does not want to pass it on to the next guy down the road. It was just too neat for him to pass up. Not like the ….22 WRF Jr 67. He gave 1200 at the hammer before buyer premium.
Wow! If he got it under RIA’s estimate, I can appreciate why he might feel slightly apprehensive–doesn’t happen often! I’m not competent to evaluate it, but hopefully JWA will provide an evaluation. Hope it’s A-OK!
Thanks. He was also hoping to win the 57 short but it went to high for him. We also agree when it goes that low what did he miss or what is wrong. Sometime you just win.
Well, I always hate to make any sort of definitive evaluation based solely on 2 pictures.
I will say that when the gun arrives and you have it in hand I would look VERY closely at the roll marks on the barrel. When I zoom in on the 2nd photo it appears as if the “ridge” of displaced metal around the impressed lettering has been sanded/polished off. This was done on the rust blued guns but not the guns blued with the DuLite process which this one should have been. Also, the polishing “grain”, while similar to the Winchester pattern looks a bit different to me but that could just be the lighting.
Additionally, I would look at the stock finish. It appears to be a bit too “shiny” in the photos. The Winchester pre-war finish for that rifle/shotgun would have been a toned lacquer and that finish looks like it has a different tone (more clear and golden). And, I always look at the fit/finish between the butt plate and the stock. Winchester sanded the butt plate and stock together so the sanding lines on the stock should continue onto the edge of the butt plate and then the butt plate tends to shrink a little over time. It is very hard to replicate that natural shrinkage since it leaves the butt plate slightly sub-surface to the stock but with a matching sanding grain. If you look at the first photo, zoomed into the butt plate, although it is sub-surface not only is the sanding pattern not evident but there are actually marks/gouges running up and down the edge which is not normal.
Again, it is VERY hard to make an expensive purchase decision on only 2 photos but if I was looking at that specimen with a critical eye I would say it has been skillfully refinished. When you get it in hand you should be able to determine for sure. Simply compare it to other pre-war 1938-1941 vintage Model 67 barrels and stocks and you will see what I mean. If I am wrong in my observations (and I hope I am) then he got a fairly decent price on it.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Again, it is VERY hard to make an expensive purchase decision on only 2 photos but if I was looking at that specimen with a critical eye I would say it has been skillfully refinished.
But relatively few bidders, as a general rule, possess a critical eye–that’s why the “decent price” is surprising. Again & again we see how un-skillfully restored or otherwise incorrect guns bring top dollar in major auctions. Wouldn’t you think a gun estimated at a possible 2 Gs deserved more than two photos?
clarence said
JWA said
Again, it is VERY hard to make an expensive purchase decision on only 2 photos but if I was looking at that specimen with a critical eye I would say it has been skillfully refinished.But relatively few bidders, as a general rule, possess a critical eye–that’s why the “decent price” is surprising. Again & again we see how un-skillfully restored or otherwise incorrect guns bring top dollar in major auctions. Wouldn’t you think a gun estimated at a possible 2 Gs deserved more than two photos?
Yes, I would think that a 2G gun deserved more than 2 photos. At RIA, 2Gs nowadays is just chum in the water, they are making bank on the high end stuff.
And yes, there are lots of bidders with money and desire. Unfortunately, my dollars are too hard to come by so I can’t afford to make a mistake and always bid on the cautious side which is why I have not won anything at RIA for a few years. They finally stopped sending me their big bound catalogs.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Thanks Jeff,
That was the info I was looking for. I hope he got a good deal but hard to tell with RI. I bought a mint model 12 20ga Skeet from them a few years ago they said was redone. Came and was not touched just a very nice gun. So its hard to say tell in hand. Again thanks for all the help.
Glad to help and you are correct, having it in hand is the best review you can get.
Please let us know after you get a chance to look at it person.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Got it today. Everything looks good. I have add some pictures tell me what you think. I thought the W stamped on the end of the Bbl was neat. I have a large collection of model 12’s with that W on the reciver. Crome what I read the W was for the new finish so the could tell if it was holding up. 
[email protected] said
I thought the W stamped on the end of the Bbl was neat. I have a large collection of model 12’s with that W on the reciver. Crome what I read the W was for the new finish so the could tell if it was holding up.
I think the use of those “W” stamps ended in ’41. If this gun dates from as early as that, it’s cond. is even more remarkable.
I’d sure like to know how one of these guns patterns. From the shooting I’ve done out of rifled bores, about 30 ft seems the max effective range.
No one else dares to venture an opinion, guess, or speculation? With any “old” gun in near mint cond, there’s usually a suspicion that it might have been refinished, but since this model was produced up to 1963 (yesterday, to me), it’s not really that old. I’ve seen a number of late production boy’s rifles like Rem #4s & 6s, & various Stevens models, in “like new” cond. that apparently were old stock that never got sold until long after they went out of production. A smooth-bore .22 would have very little appeal to the vast majority of .22 shooters, so conceivably never got sold until after it became a “collector’s item.”
After seeing the additional photos I don’t see any glaring red flags. The bluing and metal finish look original with the better photos.
Can’t say 100% sure about the stock without having it in hand but again, no obvious signs of refinishing.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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Nice! Hope it’s as good as it looks. In my younger days there was a “shot only” .22 used for yellow jacket control at an area Boy Scout camp after they ran out of the correct targets. Some days I wish I had that gun here, certainly more fun than a fly swatter.
Mike
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