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I have just one 1890 and it is in 22 long 46531 serial number. Since I strive to shoot all of my guns I want to shoot this as well but 22 long isn’t readily available and we can’t order ammunition online in my Beautiful state anymore so for that reason and others I want to shoot 22lr. It actually does shoot 22LR currently with a slight alteration to the lifter but that brings me to the barrel. It just doesn’t appear to stabilize and/or shoot 22 LR well, and I heard it may be due to the twist rate of the 22 long barrel. SO I bought another barrel which I want to reline but my question is about original barrel length. I want to preserve one barrel in original form and reline the other but my installed barrel is 24 1/2″ and my replacement is 24″ even, otherwise they appear to be identically marked and both are octagon of course and both marked 22 long.. I always read 24″ was the standard length and want to keep the right one for the original. So did Winchester make 24″ and 24 1/2″ barrels? I know these 1890s were made in great quantities and for many many years so that slight 1/2″ difference seems plausible. It’s hardly a big deal but I would like to know. Anyone have any info on this?
Hello hawssie,
The original barrel length on the Model 1890 rifles was actually 24.375 (24-⅜”).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert is correct for the first Model but the second and third models are 24″. Although I have sold off most of my collection I still have a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd model all in WRF. Where I live we are supposed to have ammo shipped to a FFL. You need to think out of the box.
Chuck said
Bert is correct for the first Model but the second and third models are 24″. Although I have sold off most of my collection I still have a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd model all in WRF. Where I live we are supposed to have ammo shipped to a FFL. You need to think out of the box.https://ammo.com/rimfire/22-long-ammo
Chuck,
Most (it not all) of the Second Model 1890s have a 24.375″ barrel. It was sometime near WW I that the barrels were shortened slightly to 24.0″.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Chuck said
Bert is correct for the first Model but the second and third models are 24″. Although I have sold off most of my collection I still have a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd model all in WRF. Where I live we are supposed to have ammo shipped to a FFL. You need to think out of the box.
https://ammo.com/rimfire/22-long-ammo
Chuck,
Most (it not all) of the Second Model 1890s have a 24.375″ barrel. It was sometime near WW I that the barrels were shortened slightly to 24.0″.
Bert
Bert, the checkered 1890 I showed you in Cody was shipped in 1906 and it has a 24″ barrel. I have had a handful of 2nd Models and never had a barrel longer than 24″. Please read page 80 of Schwing’s Slide Action Book. Only the First Models had the longer barrel. This and the broken D have always been the clues that the barrel on a First Model is correct.
Chuck said Where I live we are supposed to have ammo shipped to a FFL. You need to think out of the box.
https://ammo.com/rimfire/22-long-ammo
For $20 a box, I’d follow through with the plan to line the brl, but would use the original & sell the replacement. If the original is removed, rest assured it will eventually be separated from the gun, i.e., lost.
With a C&R, some ammo dealers WILL ship directly to victims like you & I of anti-gun persecution.
clarence said
Chuck said Where I live we are supposed to have ammo shipped to a FFL. You need to think out of the box.
For $20 a box, I’d follow through with the plan to line the brl, but would use the original & sell the replacement. If the original is removed, rest assured it will eventually be separated from the gun, i.e., lost.
With a C&R, some ammo dealers WILL ship directly to victims like you & I of anti-gun persecution.
“some ammo dealers WILL ship directly to victims like you & I of anti-gun persecution”.
While all first models 1890 will have the longer 24 3/8″ barrel (some with a broken “D” and some without), the very early second models can be found with both the longer 24 3/8″ or a 24″ barrel. I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel.
rustyjack said
While all first models 1890 will have the longer 24 3/8″ barrel (some with a broken “D” and some without), the very early second models can be found with both the longer 24 3/8″ or a 24″ barrel. I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel.
That’s interesting. About 15,500 first models were built but there were some of the longer barrels still in stock. Some say around 1,600. I have no idea when they were used up? Does your second model letter with the 24 3/8″ barrel? What about the one with the 24 1/2″?
Chuck said
rustyjack said
While all first models 1890 will have the longer 24 3/8″ barrel (some with a broken “D” and some without), the very early second models can be found with both the longer 24 3/8″ or a 24″ barrel. I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel.
That’s interesting. About 15,500 first models were built but there were some of the longer barrels still in stock. Some say around 1,600. I have no idea when they were used up? Does your second model letter with the 24 3/8″ barrel? What about the one with the 24 1/2″?
Chuck,
None of the .22 caliber rim fire rifle models “letter” with a 24.375″ or a 24.5″ barrel. The Single Shot .22 rim fire rifle barrels were all 24.375″ well past the turn of the century (at least as late as 1907), and they are all listed in the ledgers as “24”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Sounds like a lot of trouble with the relining, just get the right ammo, there’s always a way. Or just buy another 1890.
Steven Gabrielli said
Sounds like a lot of trouble with the relining, just get the right ammo, there’s always a way. Or just buy another 1890.
I strongly suspect a worn pitted bore in a rifle that vintage. I doubt any ammo will shoot better.
To the original poster…you say you altered the lifter so originality is gone. Just reline either barrel with a 1-16 twist and chamber for LR.
I would choose the original barrel as it looks the better match to the rest of the rifles’ finish.
rustyjack said
I strongly suspect a worn pitted bore in a rifle that vintage. I doubt any ammo will shoot better.
ESPECIALLY Longs! How many diff choices for that cartridge are available? Versus too many to count for LR.
Bert H. said
Chuck said
rustyjack said
While all first models 1890 will have the longer 24 3/8″ barrel (some with a broken “D” and some without), the very early second models can be found with both the longer 24 3/8″ or a 24″ barrel. I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel.
That’s interesting. About 15,500 first models were built but there were some of the longer barrels still in stock. Some say around 1,600. I have no idea when they were used up? Does your second model letter with the 24 3/8″ barrel? What about the one with the 24 1/2″?
Chuck,
None of the .22 caliber rim fire rifle models “letter” with a 24.375″ or a 24.5″ barrel. The Single Shot .22 rim fire rifle barrels were all 24.375″ well past the turn of the century (at least as late as 1907), and they are all listed in the ledgers as “24”.
Bert
Not my point. If the barrel is standard length no mention is made on the letter. But if it isn’t standard length maybe it would say so in the letter. ” I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel”. Neither of these 2 are standard length for the period.
I have owned 44745, 86456,169524 and 315496. I currently own 246659. All Second Models with 24″ barrels. The 2 First Models that I owned and the current one I own all have 24 3/8″ barrels. All 3 had the broken D in Manufactured.
Chuck said
Bert H. said
Chuck said
rustyjack said
While all first models 1890 will have the longer 24 3/8″ barrel (some with a broken “D” and some without), the very early second models can be found with both the longer 24 3/8″ or a 24″ barrel. I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel.
That’s interesting. About 15,500 first models were built but there were some of the longer barrels still in stock. Some say around 1,600. I have no idea when they were used up? Does your second model letter with the 24 3/8″ barrel? What about the one with the 24 1/2″?
Chuck,
None of the .22 caliber rim fire rifle models “letter” with a 24.375″ or a 24.5″ barrel. The Single Shot .22 rim fire rifle barrels were all 24.375″ well past the turn of the century (at least as late as 1907), and they are all listed in the ledgers as “24”.
Bert
Not my point. If the barrel is standard length no mention is made on the letter. But if it isn’t standard length maybe it would say so in the letter. ” I have a second model in the 66,000 serial range with a 24 3/8 barrel. By the 70,000 range all I have seen are 24″. Coincidentally, I also have a rifle in the 44,000 ser. range that has a 24 1/2″ barrel”. Neither of these 2 are standard length for the period.
And that is where you are mistaken… a 24.375″ or 24.5″ was still considered standard length for the .22 rim fire rifles. Hence, they would not be listed in the ledger records. I suspect that there was a large serial number range in which the various fraction lengths > 24.0″ exist.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
And that is where you are mistaken… a 24.375″ or 24.5″ was still considered standard length for the .22 rim fire rifles. Hence, they would not be listed in the ledger records. I suspect that there was a large serial number range in which the various fraction lengths > 24.0″ exist.
We are talking about the 1890’s not some other 22. The 1890’s were either the 24 3/8″ or 24″. Never heard of a 1890 with a 24 1/2″ barrel.
Chuck said
Bert H. said
And that is where you are mistaken… a 24.375″ or 24.5″ was still considered standard length for the .22 rim fire rifles. Hence, they would not be listed in the ledger records. I suspect that there was a large serial number range in which the various fraction lengths > 24.0″ exist.
We are talking about the 1890’s not some other 22. The 1890’s were either the 24 3/8″ or 24″. Never heard of a 1890 with a 24 1/2″ barrel.
And you are being too narrow minded… What is that very apt saying about Winchester? “Never say Never!”
Winchester made the same exact barrels for more than just the Model 1890… the basis for the Model 1890 barrels was the Single Shot rifle production. The same barrel blanks were used for both models, and they were produced in the same barrel shop, using the exact same machinery.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
And you are being too narrow minded… What is that very apt saying about Winchester? “Never say Never!”
Winchester made the same exact barrels for more than just the Model 1890… the basis for the Model 1890 barrels was the Single Shot rifle production. The same barrel blanks were used for both models, and they were produced in the same barrel shop, using the exact same machinery.
This Thread started as “Winchester 1890 barrel length 24 or 24 1/2?”. So prove me wrong and find a Factory document that lists the other barrel lengths available for the 1890 other than 24 3/8″ or 24″. Especially some odd length other than an even number. I doubt that the 1890 barrel, which is much smaller in diameter, was produced at the same exact time as the standard #3 barrel. Maybe the same equipment but with a totally different set up.
By the way my highwall in 22 WCF has a 26″ barrel and is stated as such on the Factory Letter.
I ask all of you to measure your 22 barrels and see if someone has one that is not an even number with fractions of an inch over the standard length. Especially a 1/2″. I’ve only measured what I have owned or was considering buying.
If someone has an 1890 with 24 1/2″ barrel I like to inspect it. Not saying it doesn’t exist but it should letter with that extra length.
Chuck said
Bert H. said
And you are being too narrow minded… What is that very apt saying about Winchester? “Never say Never!”
Winchester made the same exact barrels for more than just the Model 1890… the basis for the Model 1890 barrels was the Single Shot rifle production. The same barrel blanks were used for both models, and they were produced in the same barrel shop, using the exact same machinery.
This Thread started as “Winchester 1890 barrel length 24 or 24 1/2?”. So prove me wrong and find a Factory document that lists the other barrel lengths available for the 1890 other than 24 3/8″ or 24″. Especially some odd length other than an even number. I doubt that the 1890 barrel, which is much smaller in diameter, was produced at the same exact time as the standard #3 barrel. Maybe the same equipment but with a totally different set up.
By the way my highwall in 22 WCF has a 26″ barrel and is stated as such on the Factory Letter.
I ask all of you to measure your 22 barrels and see if someone has one that is not an even number with fractions of an inch over the standard length. Especially a 1/2″. I’ve only measured what I have owned or was considering buying.
If someone has an 1890 with 24 1/2″ barrel I like to inspect it. Not saying it doesn’t exist but it should letter with that extra length.
Chuck,
You are getting real hard-headed in your old age… the vast majority of the .22 rim fire Single Shot rifles barrels were No. 1 barrels installed on low-wall rifles. Comparatively, relatively few No. 3 octagon barrels were made for the .22 rim fire cartridges.
Again, and because a 24.375″ barrel was the standard, they did not list it in the ledger records. The odds that the person entering a rifle in the ledger record would or could detect or recognize a 24.5″ barrel versus a 24.375 (or even a 24.0″) barrel was very unlikely. You are putting way too much faith in ledger writers.
As for records showing when the barrel length was changed from 24.375 to 24.0, don’t hold your breath. Way too many of those type of records no longer exist.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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