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Hey guys,
I wanted to share this odd “thumb fire” I found it in attic of a house about 20 years ago. The bluing is a bit worn as you can see yet the gun is quite functional. Where is the best place to find history on these?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vxfiHgHTtRdFTUdC7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yQmjcnEeZLYPzbiQ6
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ezvCMEurQHAodkP56
Dell said Where is the best place to find history on these?
Right here, when our resident .22 historian notices your question. May take a day or two, as he’s extremely busy solving the world’s engineering problems, but in a bit you’ll be well-informed. Even in this cond, gun is quite valuable, did you know?
Like most Thumb triggers, condition is poor, but as Clarence says, the rifle is still quite valuable. Most of these rifles went overseas and are fairly scarce in the USA. Most you find have been re stocked or re blued. A 98% specimen will usually run a couple thousand dollars, but one has to watch for a re worked rifle.
Even in the present condition of your rifle, it may be worth near $2,000. Lots of buyers for these. JWA will be along soon to tell you more. Big Larry
Big Larry said
Like most Thumb triggers, condition is poor, but as Clarence says, the rifle is still quite valuable. Most of these rifles went overseas and are fairly scarce in the USA. Most you find have been re stocked or re blued. A 98% specimen will usually run a couple thousand dollars, but one has to watch for a re worked rifle.Even in the present condition of your rifle, it may be worth near $2,000. Lots of buyers for these. JWA will be along soon to tell you more. Big Larry
Most of these rifles went overseas
Big Larry, excuse my ignorance, but I’m hearing this for the first time, and it piqued my interest. What was the rationale for sending a relatively cheap firearm in this caliber overseas? I don’t doubt your statement, but why would this be the case?
And I can certainly attest to the scarcity. As a Winchester rimfire collector, I’ve never owned one. I passed on a few which were just too rough, and some others which were just to pricey. But I’d still love to have one.
Paul
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Big Larry, excuse my ignorance, but I’m hearing this for the first time, and it piqued my interest. What was the rationale for sending a relatively cheap firearm in this caliber overseas? I don’t doubt your statement, but why would this be the case?
Nevada Paul said
Watrous reported that “large numbers” were shipped to Australia; maybe to stem the cane-toad invasion? (I had thought they went mostly to So America.) And production was sizable, but not huge–75,400, he says.
The Thumb Trigger (subsequently named the “Model 99”) was manufactured from 1904-1923 with approximately 77,584 produced. It is based on the John Browning designed Winchester Model 1900 with the “thumb trigger” sear release designed by T.G. Bennett of Winchester.
Here is an excerpt from page 2 of the book The Winchester Model 69 – Evolution in Design: “Coincidently, patent number 632,090 for Bennett’s “Bolt Gun” thumb trigger rifle mechanism was granted on August 29, 1899, the same day as patent number 632,094 (filed 28 days earlier) was granted for John M. Browning’s “Bolt Gun” upon which the thumb trigger mechanism was based. Both patents were assigned to Winchester Repeating Arms Co. Although a unique design, the thumb trigger was not incorporated into the Winchester .22 rim fire product line until 1904, with a total of only 77,584 produced.”
The Thumb Trigger is also mentioned in Herbert Houze’s book “To the Dreams of Youth: Winchester .22 Caliber Single Shot Rifle“
For Collectors, there are at least 6 different variations with 4 different barrel markings identified to date.
Paul, As Big Larry mentioned, many (hundreds of thousands) Model 1902, 1904 and Thumb Triggers were sent to Australia to help combat the huge rabbit over-population. 13 rabbits were introduced in Australia in 1859 and by 1880 had multiplied to nearly a billion which were massively destroying crops. Finally, in the 1950’s a plague was introduced to reduce the population and now there are only about 1.5 million feral rabbits hopping around. Many of the surviving low-cost Winchester .22s sold down under were subsequently destroyed in the 1996/1997 government gun control “buy-back” scheme. Another buy-back is currently underway in Australia with the deadline to turn in guns of August 31, 2024. The current government “buy-back” value of a Winchester Thumb Trigger during this gun control cycle is $233 Aus (about $153 USD).
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Nevada Paul said
Big Larry said
Like most Thumb triggers, condition is poor, but as Clarence says, the rifle is still quite valuable. Most of these rifles went overseas and are fairly scarce in the USA. Most you find have been re stocked or re blued. A 98% specimen will usually run a couple thousand dollars, but one has to watch for a re worked rifle.
Even in the present condition of your rifle, it may be worth near $2,000. Lots of buyers for these. JWA will be along soon to tell you more. Big Larry
Most of these rifles went overseas
Big Larry, excuse my ignorance, but I’m hearing this for the first time, and it piqued my interest. What was the rationale for sending a relatively cheap firearm in this caliber overseas? I don’t doubt your statement, but why would this be the case?
And I can certainly attest to the scarcity. As a Winchester rimfire collector, I’ve never owned one. I passed on a few which were just too rough, and some others which were just to pricey. But I’d still love to have one.
Paul
Paul, as a Winchester 22 collector, as I am, you probably have seen some of these rifles for sale. What you have to watch for are broken and repaired stocks, and of course, reblues. I have a beater in my collection, but the stock is not cracked and it has very little finish left. Not to mention the bad bore prevalent in these rifles. I have seen near mint examples for $4000. Approaching M52-C Sporter values. The rifle pictured, is actually quite nice by Thumb trigger standards. Picture is a fine example, but may be a restoration. Not min
e. Big Larry
JWA said
The Thumb Trigger (subsequently named the “Model 99”) was manufactured from 1904-1923 with approximately 77,584 produced. It is based on the John Browning designed Winchester Model 1900 with the “thumb trigger” sear release designed by T.G. Bennett of Winchester.Here is an excerpt from page 2 of the book The Winchester Model 69 – Evolution in Design: “Coincidently, patent number 632,090 for Bennett’s “Bolt Gun” thumb trigger rifle mechanism was granted on August 29, 1899, the same day as patent number 632,094 (filed 28 days earlier) was granted for John M. Browning’s “Bolt Gun” upon which the thumb trigger mechanism was based. Both patents were assigned to Winchester Repeating Arms Co. Although a unique design, the thumb trigger was not incorporated into the Winchester .22 rim fire product line until 1904, with a total of only 77,584 produced.”
The Thumb Trigger is also mentioned in Herbert Houze’s book “To the Dreams of Youth: Winchester .22 Caliber Single Shot Rifle“
For Collectors, there are at least 6 different variations with 4 different barrel markings identified to date.
Paul, As Big Larry mentioned, many (hundreds of thousands) Model 1902, 1904 and Thumb Triggers were sent to Australia to help combat the huge rabbit over-population. 13 rabbits were introduced in Australia in 1859 and by 1880 had multiplied to nearly a billion which were massively destroying crops. Finally, in the 1950’s a plague was introduced to reduce the population and now there are only about 1.5 million feral rabbits hopping around. Many of the surviving low-cost Winchester .22s sold down under were subsequently destroyed in the 1996/1997 government gun control “buy-back” scheme. Another buy-back is currently underway in Australia with the deadline to turn in guns of August 31, 2024. The current government “buy-back” value of a Winchester Thumb Trigger during this gun control cycle is $233 Aus (about $153 USD).
Best Regards,
Jeff, I should have read your book
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Big Larry said
Nevada Paul said
Big Larry said
Like most Thumb triggers, condition is poor, but as Clarence says, the rifle is still quite valuable. Most of these rifles went overseas and are fairly scarce in the USA. Most you find have been re stocked or re blued. A 98% specimen will usually run a couple thousand dollars, but one has to watch for a re worked rifle.
Even in the present condition of your rifle, it may be worth near $2,000. Lots of buyers for these. JWA will be along soon to tell you more. Big Larry
Most of these rifles went overseas
Big Larry, excuse my ignorance, but I’m hearing this for the first time, and it piqued my interest. What was the rationale for sending a relatively cheap firearm in this caliber overseas? I don’t doubt your statement, but why would this be the case?
And I can certainly attest to the scarcity. As a Winchester rimfire collector, I’ve never owned one. I passed on a few which were just too rough, and some others which were just to pricey. But I’d still love to have one.
Paul
Paul, as a Winchester 22 collector, as I am, you probably have seen some of these rifles for sale. What you have to watch for are broken and repaired stocks, and of course, reblues. I have a beater in my collection, but the stock is not cracked and it has very little finish left. Not to mention the bad bore prevalent in these rifles. I have seen near mint examples for $4000. Approaching M52-C Sporter values. The rifle pictured, is actually quite nice by Thumb trigger standards. Picture is a fine example, but may be a restoration. Not min
Yes, Larry, I’ve seen them for sale with brokens stocks and refinish jobs and always passed. I actually have bid on several in the past which appeared original, if a little rough. But I just wasn’t committed to paying high dollar for a pretty rough example.
Nevada Paul
Life Member NRA
Great data and thanks guys!!! I’m just checking into the one I posted.. I don’t think it looks refinished to me, does anyone else have an opinion on its originality?
Big Larry said
I have seen near mint examples for $4000. Approaching M52-C Sporter values. The rifle pictured, is actually quite nice by Thumb trigger standards. Picture is a fine example, but may be a restoration. Not min
Speaking of guns of questionable originality, this would be a case in point, & to pay THAT kind of money for it, a wild gamble. On the other hand, the buyer who’d do so may spend as much or more on his kid’s birthday party, so what’s a mere 4 Gs even if you can’t be entirely sure about the gun?
Dell,
The finish looks original to me and I don’t see any evidence of the stock cracks in the usual locations. The only crack I see is at the heel of the stock (near the butt plate screw hole) and the only modification I can see in your photos is that someone carved out (obliterated) the “flower” in the middle of the butt plate. Probably someone who didn’t want a Daisy on his rifle….. 😉
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Dell,The finish looks original to me and I don’t see any evidence of the stock cracks in the usual locations. The only crack I see is at the heel of the stock (near the butt plate screw hole) and the only modification I can see in your photos is that someone carved out (obliterated) the “flower” in the middle of the butt plate. Probably someone who didn’t want a Daisy on his rifle….. 😉
Best Regards,
Fantastic!!! Thank you…. I had no idea I had such a treasure… This forum is great!!!
I can see in your photos is that someone carved out (obliterated) the “flower” in the middle of the butt plate. Probably someone who didn’t want a Daisy on his rifle
Hears a genuine daisy
Tony. R said
Hears a genuine daisy
I like it!
Next you should post some pictures of the Slazenger Model 12 as it is somewhat “Winchester” related……
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Tony. R said
Hears a genuine daisy
I guess this “genuine daisy” never made it’s way Downunder, else a trademark dispute would have ensued.
JWA said
Tony. R said
Hears a genuine daisy
I like it!
Next you should post some pictures of the Slazenger Model 12 as it is somewhat “Winchester” related……
Best Regards,
They sell cheap also.
November 7, 2015
Offline
Tony. R said
JWA said
Tony. R said
Hears a genuine daisy
I like it!
Next you should post some pictures of the Slazenger Model 12 as it is somewhat “Winchester” related……
Best Regards,
They sell cheap also.
Lithgow Model 12 – SSAA Gun Sales
Looks like it may use the standard pattern Winchester magazine, looks very similar to the Winchester 10 round magazine.
Mike
Tony,
Thanks for the link! That one is a bit rough for me.
Mike,
Yes, the magazines (like the rifle) are VERY similar to the Model 69. Not quite an exact copy but some parts are interchangeable.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
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