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I just picked up a Model 1890 made in 1904, chambered in 22 Long. The gun is in “hen house” condition, with lots of exterior rust and a bore that looks like a sewer pipe. I think that I’ll be able to clean up the exterior so that it is at least fairly presentable, but the bore is too far gone, so I’ve going to have it relined. I read a post on another website indicating that the rifling for 22 Long cartridges was different from that used for 22 Long Rifle.
Does anyone here know what the proper twist rate is for the 22 Long cartridge in the Model 1890?
Jim,
The twist rate for the 22 Long was the same as the 22 Short, 1:20. The twist rate for the 22 Long Rifle was 1:16.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
If you are relining it, I suggest you use a 1:16 twist liner and chamber it for LR. That will work for short, long or long rifle. Then you can find a carrier from a model 1906 and use LR cartridges as well as short and long. Long cartridges are harder to find and more expensive.
Rustyjack said
If you are relining it, I suggest you use a 1:16 twist liner and chamber it for LR. That will work for short, long or long rifle. Then you can find a carrier from a model 1906 and use LR cartridges as well as short and long. Long cartridges are harder to find and more expensive.
Thanks for that information. I have two M1890’s both originally in .22 Long. About 45 years ago I replaced the shot out barrel with a new one chambered in .22LR from Numrich Arms who at the time offered new octagonal M1890 barrels. I have been using only .22L in this gun for partridge hunting ever since but finding .22L ammo is getting hard to find so it would be nice to have a carrier that would allow .22LR. I was unaware that a M1906 carrier is interchangeable.
The carrier is different for each specific caliber. Short, long or long rifle. If they actually have it buy a bunch.
https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/22_long/6-29.html
Also, I would clean the bore as best as you can and then shoot the gun before you pay money to have it relined. It may still shoot.
Chuck said
The carrier is different for each specific caliber. Short, long or long rifle. If they actually have it buy a bunch.https://www.cci-ammunition.com/rimfire/cci/22_long/6-29.html
Also, I would clean the bore as best as you can and then shoot the gun before you pay money to have it relined. It may still shoot.
Chuck,
The carriers for the 1906 and 62’s have a little flipper in the nose of the cartridge slot. It acts as a shell stop so when a shell feeds it flips up keeping the next cartridge from partially feeding into the carrier slot. The carriers from 62’s 1906’s and 1890’s are all interchangeable with exception to first model 1890’s. The carriers for 1906’s and 62’s allow the use of short’s longs and long rifle cartridges to be used in any of the rifles. If you have an 1890 chambered in 22 long you could use shorts also with no feeding problems, but not long rifles. If the rifle is chambered in long rifle, accordingly it will function with all 3. Not a good idea to cut a long rifle chamber in a short as the 1-20 twist rate does not fare well with 40 grain long rifle bullets as far as accuracy.
Erin
Erin, Thanks for that bit of information. I had never in the almost 60 years I have owned my M1890 chambered in .22 Long ever tried .to load it with 22Short. It indeed does work through the action and chambers perfectly.
Single shot yes. You can load, feed and chamber ONE single short cartridge at a time in a long carrier. But try to put two or more into the magazine tube and you will jam the action.
Rustyjack said
Single shot yes. You can load, feed and chamber ONE single short cartridge at a time in a long carrier. But try to put two or more into the magazine tube and you will jam the action.
As I found out. Thanks.
Erin Grivicich said
Chuck,
The carriers for the 1906 and 62’s have a little flipper in the nose of the cartridge slot. It acts as a shell stop so when a shell feeds it flips up keeping the next cartridge from partially feeding into the carrier slot. The carriers from 62’s 1906’s and 1890’s are all interchangeable with exception to first model 1890’s. The carriers for 1906’s and 62’s allow the use of short’s longs and long rifle cartridges to be used in any of the rifles. If you have an 1890 chambered in 22 long you could use shorts also with no feeding problems, but not long rifles. If the rifle is chambered in long rifle, accordingly it will function with all 3. Not a good idea to cut a long rifle chamber in a short as the 1-20 twist rate does not fare well with 40 grain long rifle bullets as far as accuracy.
Erin
I didn’t know the later guns that shoot all 3 that you could use the carriers for an 1890. I have found out that the chambers for the 1890’s are many times deeper and will allow the insertion of a LR into a long chamber. So maybe with the later carrier you could shoot all 3? I don’t own anything but WRF’s and I would be interested if a long or long rifle will fit the chamber of the short.
Chuck,
With few exceptions, you can interchange just about everything between the 3 models. (1890, 1906 62) 62A’s are a little different horse. This info applies to 3rd model 1890’s, 1906’s with the lug cutout’s in the receiver and 62’s. When Winchester switched to the 3 pin bolt on the 62’s, the holes in the firing pin stop were down sized for the pins. They also reduced the diameter of the tip of the firing pin and correspondingly the hole in the bolt face. One other change was in the outer magazine tube. They eliminated the magazine tube friction spring. They simply cut two parallel slots in the outer tube and depressed the remaining metal between the cuts slightly to create a resistance on the inner mag tube. Correspondingly, they eliminated the machined cut inside the front magazine ring for the Friction spring. Complete 62 bolts will fit right in to either an 1890 or 1906 or vise versa. All other internals, pins, screws are the same. Barrels will interchange and index properly between the models, Stocks and forearms will also interchange between all 3. Almost forgot, 62 forearm screws are slightly longer than 1890-1906 ones. Magazine rings and tubes will also work between the 3 models. Virtually the same rifles with round barrels VS octagon, Gumwood VS walnut, etc. etc.
Best,
Erin
Erin Grivicich said
Chuck,With few exceptions, you can interchange just about everything between the 3 models
Best, This info applies to 3rd model 1890’sErin
I was not aware there were internal changes from the 1st and 2nd to the third except for the bolt? What else internally?
Chuck,
On the first models, the cartridge lifter and hammer are specific to it. They are held in with a pin that is of a much smaller diameter than the bushing Winchester switched to with the advent of the take down screw. Lifters for first model 1890’s are the holy grail of spare parts. They Virtually never come up for sale, can’t say I’ve ever seen one for sale. (remember, there were only 15,xxx 1st models made) Internals are interchangeable between 2nd and 3rd models. As you stated the bolts will not because there are no lug recess cuts in the sides of the second model receiver. Bolts will interchange between first and second models. Hope this clarifies….
Erin
Thanks Erin. I used to have a fairly large collection of 1890’s but never really had to find parts except for one 3rd model. This was the only one I had to get into the receiver and find parts. Back then you could get most parts from Buckinghams or Jack First. First model parts guns used to sell for $1,000.
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