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November 7, 2015
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In Texas (and probably most other states) it is a criminal offense to make a false report to a peace officer. It’s not often prosecuted as far as I know but it should give someone fraudulently reporting a stolen gun something to think about. On the other hand, in my experience smart criminals are a show business myth. Some are undoubtedly stupid enough to file a false report. Having to deal with that could be a huge headache. One advantage of buying a gun from a licensed dealer with a brick & mortar store; many cities require them to place a hold on used guns purchased from individuals until the police have an opportunity to do a stolen check.
Mike
Online
It is also against Federal Law and I’m sure its illegal in all 50 states.
From Wikipedia
Making false statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001) is the common name for the United States federal crime laid out in Section 1001 of Title 18 of the United States Code, which generally prohibits knowingly and willfully making false or fraudulentstatements, or concealing information, in “any matter within the jurisdiction” of the federal government of the United States,[1] even by merely denying guilt when asked by a federal agent.[2] A number of notable people have been convicted under the section, including Martha Stewart,[3] Rod Blagojevich,[4] Michael T. Flynn,[5] Rick Gates,[6] Scooter Libby,[7] Bernard Madoff,[8] and Jeffrey Skilling.[9]
This statute is used in many contexts. Most commonly, prosecutors use this statute to reach cover-up crimes such as perjury, false declarations, and obstruction of justice and government fraud cases.[10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_false_statements
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
TXGunNut said
In Texas (and probably most other states) it is a criminal offense to make a false report to a peace officer. It’s not often prosecuted as far as I know but it should give someone fraudulently reporting a stolen gun something to think about. On the other hand, in my experience smart criminals are a show business myth. Some are undoubtedly stupid enough to file a false report. Having to deal with that could be a huge headache. One advantage of buying a gun from a licensed dealer with a brick & mortar store; many cities require them to place a hold on used guns purchased from individuals until the police have an opportunity to do a stolen check.
Mike
I was a FFL for a while and never heard of a federal requirement like that but like you said it could be a local ordinance. I know Pawn shops are required to hold all items for a certain amount of time so they can be check for being stolen.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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1873man said
I was a FFL for a while and never heard of a federal requirement like that but like you said it could be a local ordinance. I know Pawn shops are required to hold all items for a certain amount of time so they can be check for being stolen.
Bob
Yes, it is a common local ordinance around here. Should have made that clearer. Generally referred to as a pawn shop ordinance.
Mike
Bert H. said
If the gun in question actually has a valid theft report, then it should go back to its rightful owner… Period! If you were the unfortunate “last” buyer, then tough luck for you, but if the shoe was on the other foot, I suspect that you too would want your rightful property back.Now, with that stated, it is extremely rare for a previously stolen Winchester to show up on the open market. As for someone illegitimately “claiming” ownership of a firearm, unless they can provide a bona fide theft report, there is no “claim”. Furthermore, honest people do not make false claims, and people of ill repute & intentions are extremely unlikely to expose themselves to Law enforcement scrutiny in an attempt to gain illicit possession of a firearm(s).
From my personal perspective, there is absolutely No valid reason not to disclose a complete serial number when discussing or selling an old Winchester.
Bert
Bert, in most American jurisdictions, evidence of a genuine theft report is not enough by itself to obtain a judgment ordering a Defendant (who has possession of a stolen gun, although he bought it from the thief in good faith) to turn it over to a Plaintiff (who claims to be the gun’s true owner from whom it was stolen. The Plaintiff has sued the Defendant to recover the gun.
If the gun is very valuable, the Plaintiff is often the victim’s insurance carrier that paid the victim for his loss and was assigned whatever interest the victim had in the gun.
The Plaintiff must also prove he is the rightful owner by supporting evidence, e.g. a cancelled check, register receipt, testimony of others who saw him buy it, etc. Testimony of the Plaintiff’s seller will do. The Plaintiff’s unsupported testimony won’t, by itself.
If Plaintiff bought the gun from a licensed dealer, proof is easy: just serve a business records request on the dealer and have him furnish copies of his record of the sale, along with his sworn affidavit that the documents are part of his records kept in the ordinary course of business. There’s a form for it, typically. He does have to go before a notary.
If the dealer can’t be bothered, Plaintiff then serves a subpoena duces tecum on him to appear for trial (or for his own pre-trial deposition) and bring his records with him. Should he fail or refuse to do so, he can face an irritated judge empowered to assess attorney fees against him and order he be taken into custody and kept in jail until (a) the flesh rots off his bones; or (b) he gets his mind right, whichever occurs first.
Most FFL dealers just do the right thing and furnish the transfer record copy with an affidavit. Occasionally, one demands to be paid for his time and trouble, until it is patiently explained to him he is a fact witness, not an expert witness, in the case. Nobody wants his opinion; just his records. His reward is seeing justice done.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
I think the statute of limitations ran out on this thread about 7 years ago……
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
The Statute of Limitations is tolled for juveniles and the slow-witted. When discussing matters with my WACA friends, I am in my second childhood.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
The Statute of Limitations is tolled for juveniles and the slow-witted. When discussing matters with my WACA friends, I am in my second childhood.
I read this in a thick, Southern drawl…straight out of a cowboy movie.
It requires a patronizing tone, a Mississippi Delta accent, and vocal cords seasoned by decades of fine whiskeys and Cuban cigars. Big Daddy, owner of “ten thousand acres of the richest land West of the River Nile” could best deliver the line, in a basso profondo that rattles chandeliers.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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