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Far from High condition but given just the value of the sights I think I did ok. I have to wonder how close to being one of the first second model half nickel models this is with serial # 179?? Now the question is, to restore or not………..
Erin
November 7, 2015
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It appears the last digit of the serial number may be covered, did they tell you it was 179?
Mike
At least 2 digits are missing, it is not a solid frame rifle.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
yep, second model, serial 179xx. Won’t know the last two until it’s in hand. I’m sure they would tell me but it’s really not important to immediately know.
Erin
That second model should be early enough to still have the first model tang inscription, with only the single June 26-88 patent.
Not familiar with the tang sight…who made that one?
The tang sight is a Winchester Graduated tang sight that has been cut short.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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Erin Grivicich said
yep, second model, serial 179xx. Won’t know the last two until it’s in hand. I’m sure they would tell me but it’s really not important to immediately know.
Erin
I really don’t understand why some folks will not divulge complete serial numbers on collectable firearms. Blame it on my OE auto parts background, blame it on my LE background, but it’s a big red flag for me. I agree with Erin that the parts are likely worth the purchase price and that it’s a tempting restoration project but why would an honest seller conceal the serial number?
Mike
Erin Grivicich said
Far from High condition but given just the value of the sights I think I did ok. I have to wonder how close to being one of the first second model half nickel models this is with serial # 179?? Now the question is, to restore or not………..
Erin
I have a four digit serial number 2nd model that left the factory in 1899 lettered “nickle trims”. It too is a 22 short stating “graduated peep sights” in the letter. The gun didn’t have a tang sight when I got it around 45 years ago but had very light traces to indicate it did have one at one time. I chalked that up to a factory documentation error but now I see you actually have one with the graduated sight. I suspect that the nickle was done outside the factory because I don’t believe the factory plated the bolt, trigger, hammer and take down screw. At least mine didn’t leave the factory that way but I may very well be wrong about yours. If you ever get curious enough and get a letter on it I’d be very interested in knowing the results.
Len
66m20e said
I have a four digit serial number 2nd model that left the factory in 1899 lettered “nickle trims”. It too is a 22 short stating “graduated peep sights” in the letter. The gun didn’t have a tang sight when I got it around 45 years ago but had very light traces to indicate it did have one at one time. I chalked that up to a factory documentation error but now I see you actually have one with the graduated sight. I suspect that the nickle was done outside the factory because I don’t believe the factory plated the bolt, trigger, hammer and take down screw. At least mine didn’t leave the factory that way but I may very well be wrong about yours. If you ever get curious enough and get a letter on it I’d be very interested in knowing the results.
Len
It seems we have enough questions to warrant a letter and see how it left the factory. I will call on Monday and see what I can do as to obtaining the whole serial # from the seller.
Erin
TXGunNut said
I really don’t understand why some folks will not divulge complete serial numbers on collectable firearms. Blame it on my OE auto parts background, blame it on my LE background, but it’s a big red flag for me. I agree with Erin that the parts are likely worth the purchase price and that it’s a tempting restoration project but why would an honest seller conceal the serial number?
Mike
Mike,
I’m not sure it’s an honesty thing in all cases, But I agree there is no reason to conceal parts of the number. I think people believe they are protecting “something” by not divulging the entire number.
Erin
Full serial # is 17908
Ordered a letter from Cody, Will put up the info when received.
Erin
Soooo……… The long awaited letter finally arrived from Cody according to my wife. I’m reciting from memory so bear with me until I can post a copy of it. (I won’t be home until Thursday night)
Full nickel
Caliber 22 long
Fancy wood with fine checkering
I don’t recall anything about sights after hearing full nickel…….
Obviously a few things have been changed over the years:
It now has a 22 short barrel on it of the proper vintage. I do have the correct 22 long barrel to rectify that. It is on an early second model that I was going to restore but I guess it will have to become a donor.
Obviously it now has a standard straight grain wooden stock. I will have to dig through my pile of Walnut and find a nice piece of feather crotch to make that right. When it states fine checkering how many lines per inch would that equate to and what pattern would it be?
As I was disassembling the rifle, The main spring was also plated. On a full Nickel I guess the easiest question is, What was not plated? Cartridge lifter, firing pin, etc. I don’t know, as this is the only one I’ve had my hands on and the condition makes it difficult to tell.
As far as restoration of the Nickel, how much if any adverse effect would brushed nickel have in comparison to the original bright Nickel finish.
According to Mr. Schwing there were no first models that were full nickel plated Only 40 Nickel trim, Given the low serial on this second model, what would it take to see if this was possibly the first full nickel 1890 out the door of the factory?
Erin
November 7, 2015
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Wow, sounds like you have yourself a project. I hope you’ll post lots of pics of your progress. I like brushed nickel but considering the possible significance of this rifle and the level of restoration you seem to be embarking upon I’d get as close to the original finish as possible. I believe the good folks at Cody can do some research on the ledger for an hourly fee to answer your last question, would be worth a call to discuss it further.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Wow, sounds like you have yourself a project. I hope you’ll post lots of pics of your progress. I like brushed nickel but considering the possible significance of this rifle and the level of restoration you seem to be embarking upon I’d get as close to the original finish as possible. I believe the good folks at Cody can do some research on the ledger for an hourly fee to answer your last question, would be worth a call to discuss it further.
Mike
Mike,
I am going to call Cody tomorrow and see what options exist. I will be about a 2 hour drive from there in May.
As far as the Nickel I concur with you on staying with the bright nickel. If you ever need plating done I have used this company before and have been extremely pleased with the quality of their work and a very reasonable turn around time. They specialize in firearms plating. Their prices are also what I consider very reasonable. (All my metal work was done prior to shipping, might be a different story If they do the polishing)
http://www.reliableelectroplating.com/firearm-plating.html
Best,
Erin
November 7, 2015
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Someday, Erin, I want to rent an observation perch in your shop to watch you do your magic on these soiled doves of the Winchester world. We can’t all have NIB examples but thanks to you we can see what they are supposed to look like.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Someday, Erin, I want to rent an observation perch in your shop to watch you do your magic on these soiled doves of the Winchester world. We can’t all have NIB examples but thanks to you we can see what they are supposed to look like.Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the kind words!
If you have the gumption to make the drive I will make sure you get a front row seat at no charge. (I believe after about 20 minutes you would probably ask for a magazine) It’s one of those things better observed in time lapse photography.
I actually got started on it last weekend, the trigger guard, butt plate and bolt are now polished through 180 grit. I dropped the receiver off at the welding shop for some TIG build up on a couple of nasty dings in the left side of the receiver. I will get moving on small parts this weekend and break down the other rifle to get the barrel off of it. That barrel is going to consume some time, it will need a liner and also needs some TIG work on dings and a few bad rust spots.
Best,
Erin
A picture of the Cody Letter:
I talked with Cody this A.M. If I were to have them do the first full nickel search it’s $50.00 an hour. I can make an appointment with the library to go through the microfisch when I am there in May which I believe I will do.
The letter makes no mention of the sights. After removing the rear tang sight I have to believe it’s original to the rifle as the nickel was fully intact and just as shiny as the day it left the factory under the sight. If not it will remain with the rifle any way as it’s a pretty neat original sight.
One would have to wonder why a special order rifle would sit in the warehouse for 8 months or if Winchester put it together as an advertising piece and couldn’t find a home for it?
Erin
Erin Grivicich said
Mike,
I’m not sure it’s an honesty thing in all cases, But I agree there is no reason to conceal parts of the number. I think people believe they are protecting “something” by not divulging the entire number.
Erin
I think a lot of people believe that someone will claim ownership of their gun if they post the entire serial number. If you think about it, these old guns have changed hands many times through the years. How would you know if one was reported stolen 40 years ago. Someone could come forward with an old police report. I have seen it happen with vintage musical instruments. Ive even typed the serial numbers of my guns in a Google search bar and found prior ownership on some of them where they were sold on Gunvbroker, Armslists, etc. Just a thought……
If the gun in question actually has a valid theft report, then it should go back to its rightful owner… Period! If you were the unfortunate “last” buyer, then tough luck for you, but if the shoe was on the other foot, I suspect that you too would want your rightful property back.
Now, with that stated, it is extremely rare for a previously stolen Winchester to show up on the open market. As for someone illegitimately “claiming” ownership of a firearm, unless they can provide a bona fide theft report, there is no “claim”. Furthermore, honest people do not make false claims, and people of ill repute & intentions are extremely unlikely to expose themselves to Law enforcement scrutiny in an attempt to gain illicit possession of a firearm(s).
From my personal perspective, there is absolutely No valid reason not to disclose a complete serial number when discussing or selling an old Winchester.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I agree with Bert. I have a friend that had several guns stolen and he kept the Police report. Twenty some years later one of the gun appeared. Current owner, mother of the thief, was trying to give it to a museum for tax credit. The museum contacted him to let him know the gun was out there. He did not get the gun but the gun did go to the museum where a lot of his family items were in the museum already.
Another friend had a real earlier Stratocaster stolen. He found it about 10 years later being auctioned off in England. Could not get it back for free, even with the police report, but did get it back for way less than the current value.
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