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February 25, 2023 - 5:46 pm
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Found a model 75 target at my local gun shop… serial number traces to 1948.. it has a grooved receiver.. the groove on left side goes through the winchester roll mark.. just wondered if thats factory or not… Also with  bolt closed and in fire position the bolt handle is very easy to lift.. just curious if these are issues… bolt serial does match receiver

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February 25, 2023 - 8:23 pm
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Hello Marty,

Except on very rare instances, Winchester never milled or drilled though any factory markings, especially their patented “Winchester” marking.

In answer to your second question, Yes, that is normal. The bolt opens easy because it is already in the cocked position.

Bert

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February 25, 2023 - 9:34 pm
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Hi Marty,

Welcome to the WACA Forum!

I hate to disagree with my esteemed colleague Bert (it doesn’t happen often) but Winchester DID machine the groove through the roll-marking on some Model 75 rifles.  This resulted in some rifles with a partially obliterated roll-marking and Winchester quickly corrected this problem by relocating the roll-marking 10 degrees further down the side of the receiver.  Here is an excerpt (copyright 2022) from my upcoming book on the Model 75.

Also, I believe either your serial number look-up date is incorrect since the grooved receivers did not occur until 1954 (after serial number 75,000) OR your groove has been added after purchase.

Best Regards,

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February 25, 2023 - 10:19 pm
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Hmmm… I did state “except on very rare instances“, and what you have described is apparently one of them. 

It would be interesting to know how many actually got out of the warehouse doors with that partially obliterated factory marking… do you have an approximate serial number range?

Bert

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February 25, 2023 - 10:23 pm
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Target Model, maybe not a deal-breaker, but can’t believe any Sporting Model was sent out the door that way.

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February 25, 2023 - 10:46 pm
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clarence said
Target Model, maybe not a deal-breaker, but can’t believe any Sporting Model was sent out the door that way.

  

You would think but the one in my example photo is a 75 Sporting rifle.  I also have a 75 Sporting rifle that Winchester forgot to put ANY Trade Mark roll-marking on, it just has a serial number.

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February 25, 2023 - 10:57 pm
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Bert H. said
Hmmm… I did state “except on very rare instances“, and what you have described is apparently one of them. 

It would be interesting to know how many actually got out of the warehouse doors with that partially obliterated factory marking… do you have an approximate serial number range?

Bert  

I estimate anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand went out that way, I have at least 3 in my collection, 2 from early in 1954 and 1 that was in the polishing room in October of 1954 (I have no explanation for that one).  Those numbers do not scream “Very Rare” to me…..  😉

Winchester had a surplus of 75 receivers in 1952, so many that there were NO 75 receivers produced in 1953, that is why there is a hiccup in the serialization records and one of the discrepancies between the polishing room dates and the Madis dates as he was unaware of the receiver production hiatus.

Because of the halt in receiver production the serial number range for the obliterated markings is muddled since the receivers were not assembled sequentially, most are post-75,000 though.  

Whenever you see a grooved receiver with an obliterated marking you have to first determine if the receiver is post 75,000 and then look closely at the machining, tool marks and bluing to determine if it was done by Winchester or afterwards.  Almost all of the aftermarket added grooves I have seen on pre-75,000 serial numbers were clearly different from Winchester as they were simply added for functionality.

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February 25, 2023 - 11:01 pm
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Welcome, Marty. I probably won’t be able to help answer your question but I’d like to see some pics of the receiver and other areas. Many 75 Target rifles were modified for competition. 
Full disclosure: I like looking at pics of interesting guns!

 

Mike

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February 26, 2023 - 12:58 am
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Thanks for all the replies … i will try and post some photos tomorrow…. the serial number on this rifle is 53227… which places it made in 48…thanks again for the responce.. looks like i came to the right place !!!!

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February 26, 2023 - 1:25 am
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marty slautterback said
Thanks for all the replies … i will try and post some photos tomorrow…. the serial number on this rifle is 53227… which places it made in 48…thanks again for the responce.. looks like i came to the right place !!!!  

Hi Marty,

You are correct, 53227 places it at the very beginning of 1948 which is waaaay too early to have been grooved at the factory.  Looking forward to seeing your photos, let us know if you have any problems posting them since you have “Guest” status.

Best Regards, 

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February 26, 2023 - 12:49 pm
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So after some detective work and looking at other factory grooved receivers… mine is for sure post factory as the grooves actually go past the fwd end of the receiver and start on the barrel… not sure if thats good or bad.. will still try and post some pics !!!!  thanks again

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February 26, 2023 - 2:54 pm
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marty slautterback said not sure if thats good or bad..

Good, if you can use that info to secure a better deal.  Ought to be worth a substantial discount, say about 25%.

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February 26, 2023 - 5:45 pm
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marty slautterback said
So after some detective work and looking at other factory grooved receivers… mine is for sure post factory as the grooves actually go past the fwd end of the receiver and start on the barrel… not sure if thats good or bad.. will still try and post some pics !!!!  thanks again

  

The long groove shouldn’t hurt anything as far as function.  You will enjoy scoping that rifle as they are very accurate and fun to shoot.

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February 27, 2023 - 4:11 pm
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tried to post some pics but no joy !!!!… thanks to all for the replys… im still thinking about picking it up.. it also has a older weaver 1.5×4.5 all metal scopeon it…. 

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