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Model 697 sales and acquisition
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May 20, 2021 - 8:20 pm
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I don’t believe I have seen or heard of any Model 697s being for sale or acquired in recent times.  Have I missed something or are they not available?  RDB

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May 20, 2021 - 8:55 pm
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rogertherelic said
I don’t believe I have seen or heard of any Model 697s being for sale or acquired in recent times.  Have I missed something or are they not available?  RDB  

JWA probably has them all in his hoard Wink

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May 21, 2021 - 1:03 am
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That’s a fact, Jack !!!

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May 21, 2021 - 7:08 pm
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I only have a “few”  😉

They do come up for sale occasionally.  One just sold at a recent auction a week or so ago (a member here bought it).  

The last one I bought was at the Cody show 2 years ago.

Many times they are not listed in the auctions as a 697 but simply a “scoped 69” so you have to look closely at the pictures to spot them.

Best Regards,

 

.

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May 21, 2021 - 11:31 pm
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Thanks for the replies.  The last one I was able to purchase was back in Dec. of 2015.  I paid a rather high price and was questioned about why I would be willing to pay such a high price.  Number one, I was bidding against someone who also was willing to pay a high price and my thought at the time was  “where or when will I get another chance to buy one”.  Since then I haven’t run across another 697 for sale.  Glad I got it when I did.  RDB

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May 22, 2021 - 3:07 pm
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rogertherelic said
Thanks for the replies.  The last one I was able to purchase was back in Dec. of 2015.  I paid a rather high price and was questioned about why I would be willing to pay such a high price.  Number one, I was bidding against someone who also was willing to pay a high price and my thought at the time was  “where or when will I get another chance to buy one”.  Since then I haven’t run across another 697 for sale.  Glad I got it when I did.  RDB  

Yep, they are one of those hard to find models that you have to grab when you can.

Paying a higher price than you expect on that model is par for the course but in the end you are still paying less than tomorrow’s price today.  They have almost doubled in price since 2015, probably because some blabbermouth published a book on them……..

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May 22, 2021 - 4:02 pm
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JWA said
 They have almost doubled in price since 2015, probably because some blabbermouth published a book on them……..

Goes to show, better buy up all the 75s you want before the same thing happens with them!

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May 22, 2021 - 6:26 pm
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clarence said

Goes to show, better buy up all the 75s you want before the same thing happens with them!  

 

Good point!  Especially the rare versions……

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May 22, 2021 - 7:33 pm
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JWA said

 

Good point!  Especially the rare versions……  

And I happen to know, you have the rarest version. Big LarrySmileSmileSmile

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May 23, 2021 - 12:41 am
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Big Larry or JWA,  Which is the rarest version?  Thanks,  RDB

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May 23, 2021 - 3:29 am
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rogertherelic said
Big Larry or JWA,  Which is the rarest version?  Thanks,  RDB  

 

Factory 2-3/4X scope equipped Model 75 Sporting.

 

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May 23, 2021 - 3:46 am
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Thanks for the 75 information.  A “Special Order” and not a production item for sure.  I should have reminded JWA of the “Sightless 69A” before the book was published.  Embarassed   RDB

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May 23, 2021 - 1:37 pm
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rogertherelic said
Thanks for the 75 information.  A “Special Order” and not a production item for sure.  I should have reminded JWA of the “Sightless 69A” before the book was published.  Embarassed   RDB  

Yes, the factory scoped 75 Sporting rifles were not a regular catalogued production item like the 697 or 69 Dual-Sight models but the scopes were offered as a factory “Option” for the Model 75 Sporting so it depends upon your definition of “Special Order”.  There were enough of them that Winchester had documentation for the 75 Sporting that specified which bases were to be used and the base mounting positions for each scope power (8X, 5X and 2 3/4X).  

For the 69A, no reminder needed, I mentioned the special order “Sightless 69A” in Chapter 8, the last paragraph on page 372 but just did not include a photo of it. 

 

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May 23, 2021 - 4:32 pm
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Thank you Jeff for pointing out that reference to the sightless Model 69A.  I had missed that information.  Your book is so full of information.  I admit that I skimmed through parts.  More information in the book than my mind can comprehend.  Yes, you are right, it’s to bad there is no documentation that would help to make the gun a legitimate collectible with value.  I have the same problem with the aluminum receiver Model 61 I have.  How were you able to get documentation on the Model 75 Sporting Rifle?   RDB

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May 23, 2021 - 5:59 pm
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rogertherelic said
 How were you able to get documentation on the Model 75 Sporting Rifle?   RDB  

The supporting documentation came from some references at the McCracken Research Library, blueprints and catalogs. 

Unfortunately, there is no surviving order information to definitely prove a specific serial number 75 Sporting came with a scope though.  And since the correct scope and bases could be added to any 75 Sporting rifle after manufacture they should all be examined VERY carefully to determine if possibly original.  Unlike the Model 69, most Model 75s had the proof marks on the side, whether they came with a scope or not.  It makes faking that factory option relatively easy so they do not bring the $ premium they normally would based on rarity.

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May 23, 2021 - 6:28 pm
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JWA said

Yes, the factory scoped 75 Sporting rifles were not a regular catalogued production item like the 697 or 69 Dual-Sight models but the scopes were offered as a factory “Option” for the Model 75 Sporting so it depends upon your definition of “Special Order”.

Well, as I’m sure you know, Bert maintains that an option should not be considered a special order. 

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May 23, 2021 - 7:00 pm
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Yes, there are differing opinions and I understand his point.  “Special Order” can be interpreted several ways

In this case, the 75 had to be specifically “ordered” with the factory scope “option”.  The end result is a standard catalogued Model 75 Sporting with an added  factory doodad.  

In the case of Rogertherelic’s sightless 69A, that was in fact a “special order” since the normal factory “option” was simply to have a sight blank installed.  His rifle was special ordered with the sight dovetails omitted which was not listed as an option (for .22s).  The end result is a non-standard, uncatalogued Model 69A.

In my mind, that subtle difference helps keep things organized for me but I am not really hung up on the definition of “special order” either way, especially since in my limited .22 rimfire world I hardly ever see a special order on these bolt action rifles, no matter how you define it.

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May 23, 2021 - 9:26 pm
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JWA said
Yes, there are differing opinions and I understand his point.  “Special Order” can be interpreted several ways

In this case, the 75 had to be specifically “ordered” with the factory scope “option”.  The end result is a standard catalogued Model 75 Sporting with an added  factory doodad.  

I think anything a customer has to make a personal request to obtain because it’s not one of the standard configurations ordinarily supplied to dealers, standard option or not, qualifies as a special order.

How remarkable that someone paid extra (undoubtedly) to have that sightless 69 built!  What could have been the purpose?  It wasn’t a smoothbore, was it?

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May 23, 2021 - 10:14 pm
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clarence said

I think anything a customer has to make a personal request to obtain because it’s not one of the standard configurations ordinarily supplied to dealers, standard option or not, qualifies as a special order.

Yes, I understand your reasoning behind that version of the definition also. 

My problem is that a Model 52, 69A or 75 ordered with the optional 10rd magazine instead of the 5rd fits that definition even though there is nothing “special” about the rifle.  I prefer to have the additional delineation of a rifle that is supplied as non-standard vs standard when it comes to describing it.

On the other topic, the sightless 69A has a grooved receiver with a rifled barrel.  I assume someone had no use whatsoever for iron sights and wanted the clean appearance of no dovetails on the barrel.  It is certainly a neat looking rifle, one that everyone gives a doubletake when looking at it.  The barrel is 25″ (full length) in case you were wondering.

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May 24, 2021 - 1:21 am
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IMG_0221.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_0222.JPGImage EnlargerThank  you Jeff for your input.

Wanted to post a couple of pictures of the “Sightless 69A”.  It shows no signs of ever having a scope or being fired.  It has a grooved receiver. RDB

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