Model 697 sales and acquisition |Winchester .22 Rim Fire|Forum|Winchester Collector

rogertherelic said
Big Larry or JWA,  Which is the rarest version?  Thanks,  RDB  

Factory 2-3/4X scope equipped Model 75 Sporting.

Best Regards,

rogertherelic said
Thanks for the 75 information.  A “Special Order” and not a production item for sure.  I should have reminded JWA of the “Sightless 69A” before the book was published.    RDB  

Yes, the factory scoped 75 Sporting rifles were not a regular catalogued production item like the 697 or 69 Dual-Sight models but the scopes were offered as a factory “Option” for the Model 75 Sporting so it depends upon your definition of “Special Order”.  There were enough of them that Winchester had documentation for the 75 Sporting that specified which bases were to be used and the base mounting positions for each scope power (8X, 5X and 2 3/4X).  

For the 69A, no reminder needed, I mentioned the special order “Sightless 69A” in Chapter 8, the last paragraph on page 372 but just did not include a photo of it. 

Best Regards,

rogertherelic said
 How were you able to get documentation on the Model 75 Sporting Rifle?   RDB  

The supporting documentation came from some references at the McCracken Research Library, blueprints and catalogs. 

Unfortunately, there is no surviving order information to definitely prove a specific serial number 75 Sporting came with a scope though.  And since the correct scope and bases could be added to any 75 Sporting rifle after manufacture they should all be examined VERY carefully to determine if possibly original.  Unlike the Model 69, most Model 75s had the proof marks on the side, whether they came with a scope or not.  It makes faking that factory option relatively easy so they do not bring the $ premium they normally would based on rarity.

Best Regards,

Yes, there are differing opinions and I understand his point.  “Special Order” can be interpreted several ways

In this case, the 75 had to be specifically “ordered” with the factory scope “option”.  The end result is a standard catalogued Model 75 Sporting with an added  factory doodad.  

In the case of Rogertherelic’s sightless 69A, that was in fact a “special order” since the normal factory “option” was simply to have a sight blank installed.  His rifle was special ordered with the sight dovetails omitted which was not listed as an option (for .22s).  The end result is a non-standard, uncatalogued Model 69A.

In my mind, that subtle difference helps keep things organized for me but I am not really hung up on the definition of “special order” either way, especially since in my limited .22 rimfire world I hardly ever see a special order on these bolt action rifles, no matter how you define it.

Best Regards,

clarence said

I think anything a customer has to make a personal request to obtain because it’s not one of the standard configurations ordinarily supplied to dealers, standard option or not, qualifies as a special order.

Yes, I understand your reasoning behind that version of the definition also. 

My problem is that a Model 52, 69A or 75 ordered with the optional 10rd magazine instead of the 5rd fits that definition even though there is nothing “special” about the rifle.  I prefer to have the additional delineation of a rifle that is supplied as non-standard vs standard when it comes to describing it.

On the other topic, the sightless 69A has a grooved receiver with a rifled barrel.  I assume someone had no use whatsoever for iron sights and wanted the clean appearance of no dovetails on the barrel.  It is certainly a neat looking rifle, one that everyone gives a doubletake when looking at it.  The barrel is 25″ (full length) in case you were wondering.

Best Regards,