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Model 62 Breech Stamps?
November 23, 2021
5:54 am
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New Zealand
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November 23, 2021
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Could anyone help me identify if there is anything special about the stamps on the breech of a Model 62 I have?

I inherited a number of .22 pump action from my late brother and am slowly doing research on each one but can not find any reference to these particular stamps

The rifle serial number is 43966 – Manufacture date December 1936 ?

Any help greatly appreciated

7nPejgzo8HoRJa1258Aet2jQtwBKde1XfCV9wnklrAyR5Zn_Ae9EiHLe6vuN_Qrjps1PKI4AO-hp2bNs5DT1nFheMFsIMptuM7M3cF_V5kPzaxVyr0gv5y3lKyhV-UplWMDbZ5DoOMoY3wgYyx8-3_KX5MnM_45Wx4Ai3iYe8CXc1cGGVKnrrQ-TwhsHrOWHu-z02obl4FHcKpYEj_A7Q-Dov9x10-nQwHYJneucB7nM82tEl-2_M4OC2Dfk6hxtkgstJ1A4AHV_180y-33tjvvibxaqDaOtK7yiIvVyCGh1B04-ePGeZDJvRZPXaygWiN8rxo8wlZx8lbUnRgFUChfUb1GSz-uRkeq6FC0Qu80DdDEeepTtj_3huRJ9dhcyNKaQn_MugL6ZyN6N01QvceqEPqBbKO1HO1IVjwj60XEcesrUuJTYi1G3zugnErhIR6vCwemO3eItlKD_RMa3sojhXzwU-Kebv1ROzS5zRy5jKcHaHBabPBP3_xjD4hSqxh6tbB3jJ72Kgxa98m1p04AeT5X1T9q4JVAlRn38Ut-c5iznbmuEzKqCl7nqtptMK8Jw59qskKZj1UqyP73XKZ5UTSrpbNXXguzEkzlsE6a6rWfWCmTOrDA-VQwkDUefp-D2VY7rErq4INgVqVCvFuwpXg9WaTtIX-C71jy4DQy6X9pGGSmmZis_VKK6btIG2aA3GEE1BrRLqa_T9r3Qsq-Y2w=w598-h1325-no?authuser=0Image Enlarger

November 24, 2021
3:01 am
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Kingston, WA
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Hello Graham,

December 1936 is the correct date of manufacture.  Your attempt to post a picture was not successful…

Bert

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November 25, 2021
3:16 am
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Kingston, WA
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Graham… still a no-go on the picture.  Send it to me via email (full sized) and I will post it for you.

Bert – Win1885@msn.com

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November 25, 2021
6:55 am
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Kingston, WA
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OK, here is your picture… and I do not have any idea what those markings represent.

Model-62.jpgImage Enlarger

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November 25, 2021
7:44 pm
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They look somewhat like Australian markings to me.  In Australia the >< with an “S” meant it was previously owned by the military and was placed for sale or disposal to the public.  >< Without the “S” meant it was for sale to the public but was not guaranteed to be serviceable.

Is there a “Broad Arrow” marking on the stock?

Maybe some of our WACA Mates from down-under can shed some light.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

November 26, 2021
8:03 am
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New Zealand
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Thanks JWA. After researching what you posted I came across the following post on a New Zealand hunting forum.

I guess it was what the commonwealth countries did during war time with all rifles. 

“The SS and double broad arrow means ‘Sold out of Service’. The SPS means ‘Special Precautions Scheme’ which ran during WW2 when .22 and .303 rifles were impressed by the Government for Home Guard training (.22’s for practice and .303’s for issue). After the war they were offered back to the original owners first. The unclaimed rifles were then sold to the public and got the SS stamp to signify official disposal. A piece of NZ history!”

The stamped 4779 appears to be a reference or serial number allocated issued local authority of the times.

All very interesting. 

Thanks for your help. 

November 26, 2021
4:04 pm
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Graham said
Thanks JWA. After researching what you posted I came across the following post on a New Zealand hunting forum.

I guess it was what the commonwealth countries did during war time with all rifles. 

“The SS and double broad arrow means ‘Sold out of Service’. The SPS means ‘Special Precautions Scheme’ which ran during WW2 when .22 and .303 rifles were impressed by the Government for Home Guard training (.22’s for practice and .303’s for issue). After the war they were offered back to the original owners first. The unclaimed rifles were then sold to the public and got the SS stamp to signify official disposal. A piece of NZ history!”

The stamped 4779 appears to be a reference or serial number allocated issued local authority of the times.

All very interesting. 

Thanks for your help.   

 

Hi Graham,

Glad you got it all sorted and thanks for following up with your findings.  Your 62 certainly has an interesting history (as many old rifles do) but in your case it is always neat to be able to pin it down a little more.

I also realized that most people would probably want their loaned rifle returned and that likely a portion of the unclaimed rifles eventually offered for sale were due to NZ heroes who did not make it back from the war.  Bless them for their sacrifice and enjoy that rifle for them.

It is a shame that the NZ government has such a short memory and has gone from asking (and gratefully receiving) loaner rifles from civilians for wartime use to now requiring citizens to turn them in for destruction if they happen to hold more than 10 rounds (like your original Model 62). 

Thanks for sharing your rifle, would love to see some more pictures if you get a chance.

  

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

November 29, 2021
1:29 am
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Sydney Australia
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EPS.jpgImage Enlarger

Ar every gun auction I have attended in NZ there are always plenty of .22 rifles with similar markings to the one posted. This also includes .303 rifles such as the Model 1895 and sporting and target Lee Enfields. These rifles were compulsorily  purchased under a program known as “impresment”, during the war when there was an acute shortage of rifles for home defense. The same thing happened in Australia. When the rifles were sold off or returned to there owners they received the S /|\ S marking or Sold out of Service mark.

 

As to the meaning of the marking S.P.S. There has been a lot of conjecture about this. To the best of my knowledge nobody has come up with actual documentation to prove its meaning. I was told that it stood for Shore Patrol Service, which sounds reasonable, as the invader will come from the sea with an island nation like NZ; again no evidence to back this up though.

 

I have not heard of Special Precautions Scheme and wonder if it actually existed. There was an Emergency Precautions Scheme, which included the Home Guard, see the poster. Having two organizations with a similar name seems a bit redundant.

 

One fellow here in Australia is writing a book about impresment of small arms in Australia, perhaps someone will do the same about the program in New Zealand, one day. I do have copies of some original paperwork relating to this, if anyone is interested.

 

Regards

 

Alan David

Sydney

Australia

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November 29, 2021
10:00 pm
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That’s an interesting rifle and well worth keeping. The markings do not look like any Australian military markings I have seen so I’d assume they are NZ WW2 impressment markings.

I have done the hard yards in researching Australian impressments and seizures during the war and have a great book ready to go. Maybe it will be produced next year. There is a lot in this subject, not only in terms of the history but also lessons about how officialdom operates, seemingly without much change in 80 years.

It would require someone in NZ to do the comparable research to determine what went on there. It takes years to do this and get the story right and I’m almost at the end of my years in the Australian archives on the subject.

There’s a precis at http://www.seizureandimpressment.com.

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