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When did Winchester stop drilling and tapping the upper tang for mounting a tang sight on the model 61?
Thanks,
Al
Stopped the provision for tang peep sights in the mid 70 thousand serial numbers (1947). Could be ordered as a factory special option for a while after that.
renegade said
Stopped the provision for tang peep sights in the mid 70 thousand serial numbers (1947). Could be ordered as a factory special option for a while after that.
Are you sure about that? For all of the lever-action models, the tang sight screw hole was omitted just before production was suspended during WW II. Specifically, for the Model 64 and 94, the tang screw hole was discontinued in June of 1942.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks guys. The reason I ask is that a friend of mine has a near new model 61 sn 174749 (1951), with a tang sight, and a blank in the rear sight slot. He strongly believes it’s factory installed.
Al,
Very unlikely, but remotely possible.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hello guys,
Based on my survey of the Model 61 rifles the change occurred during 1946 right around SN 68500. I have a scattering of a few rifles later than that but that number pretty much defines the change. It is interesting that the change is also marked by a change in the chamber of the rifle. Almost all of the last D&T tang rifles are round barrel 22 WRF rifles. The later undrilled rifles are all .22 S.L.&LR chambers. In addition the last rifles from 1942 (before production ceased for the war) were all WRF chambered guns. My bet is the early 1946 D&T guns were parts produced before the war and then finally assembled 4 years later. With regard to SN 174719: I have catalogued two rifles with D&T tangs manufactured during 1947 but not a single rifle afterwards (2500 additional guns) in my data. I highly doubt it is factory original
The following is a bit on the old side compared to all the data I currently have but it might help.
WACA 61 Survey
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-22-rim-fire/model-61-research-survey/
Model 61 Interim Results
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=534703
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
thanks all, much appreciated. I’ll let my friend know that it’s highly unlikely his model 61 was D&T at the factory.
tionesta1 said
Thanks guys. The reason I ask is that a friend of mine has a near new model 61 sn 174749 (1951), with a tang sight, and a blank in the rear sight slot. He strongly believes it’s factory installed.
Bert H. said
renegade said
Stopped the provision for tang peep sights in the mid 70 thousand serial numbers (1947). Could be ordered as a factory special option for a while after that.
Are you sure about that? For all of the lever-action models, the tang sight screw hole was omitted just before production was suspended during WW II. Specifically, for the Model 64 and 94, the tang screw hole was discontinued in June of 1942.
Bert
The original post was referring to Model 61’s, not the lever actions.
renegade said
tionesta1 said
Thanks guys. The reason I ask is that a friend of mine has a near new model 61 sn 174749 (1951), with a tang sight, and a blank in the rear sight slot. He strongly believes it’s factory installed.
Bert H. said
renegade said
Stopped the provision for tang peep sights in the mid 70 thousand serial numbers (1947). Could be ordered as a factory special option for a while after that.
Are you sure about that? For all of the lever-action models, the tang sight screw hole was omitted just before production was suspended during WW II. Specifically, for the Model 64 and 94, the tang screw hole was discontinued in June of 1942.
Bert
The original post was referring to Model 61’s, not the lever actions.
Yes, it was. That stated, based on my research and observations, Winchester very frequently made similar production changes to all models at the same time via Change Of Manufacture notices. I suspect that the Models 61, 62, and 63 all followed suit at, or very close to, the same time as the Models 94 and 64.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert,
Clarification
- Yes, Winchester issued Change of Manufacturing Order #14380 in June of 1942
- Yes, factory records for the most part are not available
- Yes, production numbers for WWII are not available
- Schwing estimates that Serial Numbers at the end of 1942 were in the high 60K range
- The original poster was interested in knowing if his friends serial # (174749) could have been factory
- As “TwoBit” and myself are asserting, is that Tang D&T specimens exist into the mid to high 70K serial numbers
- The high 70K serial numbered 61’s age to the 1946’s
That is the point I was making to the original poster to answer his question. Multiple specimens exist in the 70K serial range, which is beyond 1942.
Only trying to illustrate the approximate serial number when D&T guns were no longer available.
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