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Help needed for Winchester Mod.69 Scope Mounting Block No. 5 Rear
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November 3, 2023 - 12:18 pm
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I have a Winchester model 69 with original factory applied scope No.5 Unfortunately before my ownership the rear scope mounting block went missing. I want to put it together to its original condition. I need to get my hands on the rear mounting block. I hope that this community can help me succeed with complete my rifle. Any help are appericated and I hope to hear from you.

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November 3, 2023 - 10:06 pm
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Hi Carl and welcome to the WACA forum!

The Model 69 with the #5 scope used 3/4 different rear mounting blocks depending upon the sight configuration.

If your rifle has the 96B peep sight mounted at the rear of the receiver you need the #5 rear block. 

If your rifle has the 32C open sight mounted on the barrel then you need the #3 rear block.

If your rifle has no provisions for any sights (no dovetails) then you have a 697 and need the #2 (or #6) rear block.

There are also 2 different lengths of the rear #3 and #5 rear blocks which have different CtC hole spacing so you need to determine EXACTLY which block you need before searching (both the block # and the hole spacing).

Original blocks are VERY hard to find and pricey when you do find them.  They are currently selling for between $100-$200 each.  There are also aftermarket reproduction blocks available which look very close to the originals but cheaper.

Once you determine which block you need you can post in the Winchester Swap Meet section here on the forum to see if someone has one for sale.

Best Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

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November 4, 2023 - 9:03 pm
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Jeff, are you in the Country?

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November 5, 2023 - 12:28 am
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Yes, I am back for a couple of weeks, then have to return.  I sent you a PM.

Best Regards,

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November 5, 2023 - 2:24 pm
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Hello Jeff! 

Thank you for your reply with explanation of it. I dont seem to be able to post photos here so I will try to explain it as best as I can. The sight is on the barrel and are open type, Winchester No.32B. The front scope mount base is still present and after a google search I found a rifle identical as mine: Winchester Model 69 With Winchester… for sale at Gunsamerica.com: 976443379 

I was not aware that there also 2 different lengths of the rear blocks so I will check the CC on the hole spacing tonight.

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November 5, 2023 - 3:30 pm
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Hi Carl,

Based on your description it sounds as if you have a Winchester Catalog # G6952R which is a Model 69 with the 32C rear sight and Winchester No. 5 (5X) scope.  If your rifle has a 32B it has the incorrect rear sight.

The typical rear block is 1.00″ in length with a CtC hole spacing of .60″.

There is also a slightly longer version of the rear block that is 1.06″ with a CtC hole spacing of .75″ (these are much less common).

The 2 different base lengths are not interchangeable due to the different hole spacing so measure your CtC rear holes and that will tell you which length #3 base you need for your rifle.

I did not cover the different length rear bases in my book on the Model 69 very well and have corrected that oversight in the future 2nd edition.

The rifle in your link to GunsAmerica has a 2 3/4X scope on it.  The base CtC distance is different between the 2-3/4X and the 5X scopes so you should measure that distance as well to verify your rifle has the correct scope.  Sorry to play “20 questions” with you but there were 18 different cataloged versions of the 69/69A (11 with provision for scopes) and 48 major sub-type variations so I want to make sure you know exactly which base is correct for your rifle before you start looking.

I would love to see your rifle, as a WACA guest you will have to use a photo hosting service to post photos or you can email them directly to me and I can post them here for you. 

Best Regards,

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November 5, 2023 - 8:22 pm
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Hi All,

Here are Carl’s pictures. 

Carl, based on your photos your rifle is a G6955R which originally came with a 2-3/4X scope, your rear sight is in fact a correct 32C (which has a higher blade than the 32B).  The correct rear base for your rifle is the #3 (.48″ high) rear.  Just measure the CtC hole spacing to determine which length of rear sight base you need.  Measure the length of your scope to determine which scope you currently have.  Some of them are also marked with the scope power on the tube near the end.

You probably also noticed your thumbscrew for the rear scope mount is broken (missing threads) so you may have to replace that also and, unfortunately,  they are even harder to find than the #3 rear base since they are easily broken (twisted-off) like yours.

Best Regards,

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November 6, 2023 - 1:41 pm
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Here are a few more pictures from Carl.

Looks like he needs the rear #3 that is 1.00″ in length with the CtC hole spacing of .60″ if anyone has a spare or knows of a source please contact him.

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November 6, 2023 - 2:29 pm
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JWA said
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British proofs? 

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November 6, 2023 - 4:45 pm
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Yes, they are British.  There is also the British Broad Arrow on the stock.  It was likely one of the rifles purchased during WWII.

Best Regards,

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December 16, 2023 - 5:05 pm
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As it seems to be a difficult challenge to obtain a original base, I was wondering if anyone know about really good reproduction being made as a temporary fill in?

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December 16, 2023 - 5:25 pm
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Carl Ellingstad said
As it seems to be a difficult challenge to obtain a original base, I was wondering if anyone know about really good reproduction being made as a temporary fill in?

  

Your ONLY hope:  http://www.steveearleproducts.com/scopeblocks.html

I think he made up a few sets, but sold out & hasn’t made more.

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December 17, 2023 - 7:30 pm
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Carl Ellingstad said
As it seems to be a difficult challenge to obtain a original base, I was wondering if anyone know about really good reproduction being made as a temporary fill in?

  

Hi Carl,

There have been some fairly good reproductions made in the past and there is currently a gentleman contemplating doing a run on them again but there are none in production right now.

Don’t lose hope and keep checking back here.

Best Regards,

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December 17, 2023 - 9:30 pm
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JWA said There have been some fairly good reproductions made in the past and there is currently a gentleman contemplating doing a run on them again but there are none in production right now.

I’d bet a high-school machine shop class would have no trouble milling this block…if there was left any school in the country that still had such a class!  But the point is, it wouldn’t be a difficult job.  If I had the rifle & wanted to shoot it, I’d at least look into having one custom made, rather than keep on wishin’ & hopin’ that someone someday would get around to doing it.  I think these Home Front “Sniper Rifles” are worth spending something extra on.  Remember a couple of yrs ago that sight maker who was “for sure” going to repro the #93 front sight?  Several folks committed themselves to buying a number of them.  STILL waiting for that to happen.

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December 17, 2023 - 11:33 pm
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clarence said

 Remember a couple of yrs ago that sight maker who was “for sure” going to repro the #93 front sight?  Several folks committed themselves to buying a number of them.  STILL waiting for that to happen.  

Yup, I am still waiting also, I committed to at least a dozen.  Other than the specific sized ball mill bit the rest is straight forward.  There are alternative commercial bases to simply mount a scope without the “see-through” feature but I like the original intent.

And I agree, the Home Guard rifles deserve to be resurrected.  I was lucky enough to score this certificate at an auction this year, lots of cool (and somewhat forgotten) history that I thought you might appreciate.

Best Regards,

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January 3, 2024 - 3:58 pm
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Finally found my dual view blocks while getting ready for Las Vegas… but they don’t match what JWA says you need… slight differences between them too..  Shorts are marked with “3” and “5”. they are .840 in length… heights are (#3) .530 and (#5) .462 … hole space is .475 for both.   The longer are both marked with “5”,  both are .460 height.  The lengths are 1.08 and 1.04 length.  Hole spacing for both is: .580.  Measuring caliper is a Brown & Sharp… so it’s accurate.  Operator, not always….

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January 3, 2024 - 7:16 pm
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Hi Ben,

The dimensions are fairly consistent from Winchester on the scope blocks but your numbers seem a bit “off”.  There is no doubt you have some #3 and #5 bases but they are tricky to measure accurately with calipers without using a few simple tricks.

The hole spacing dimensions from Winchester are measured center-to-center so to get an accurate CtC dimension use the inside arms on the caliber to measure the outside of the hole to the opposite outside of the adjacent hole.  Then use the outside arms of the calipers to measure the inside of the hole to the opposite inside of the adjacent hole.  Add those two dimensions together and divide by 2 to get the measured CtC dimension.

For the height, Winchester specified it to be measured from the top of the “arch” on the underside to the top of the flat of the base.  This is tricky since there is no “flat” spot directly above the arch at the “see-through” point.  To get an accurate measurement simply lay a straight edge across the flats (side to side), then using the caliper outside arms measure from the top of the arch underside to the top of the straight edge and then subtract the thickness of the straight edge.

The length is simply measured directly and is just the length.  There were significant variations in the overall lengths so no issue there.

Those methods should get you accurate and correct dimensions, I am curious to see if that changes your posted numbers (which are odd).

Best Regards,

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January 3, 2024 - 9:10 pm
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Jeff… using those parameters…

hole spacing on small blocks is .5

length of #3 small block: .84

length of #5 small block is: .84

height of #3 small block is: .470

height of #5 small block is .415

hole spacing on both  #5 big blocks: .60

lengths 1.04 and 1.05

height for both: .415

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January 3, 2024 - 9:56 pm
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Hi Ben,

Those new dimensions are spot-on, you are now a trained operator with the Brown & Sharpe 😉

Best Regards,

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January 3, 2024 - 10:20 pm
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These special 69 blocks make the standard blocks for the 1909 series scopes seem models of simplicity, by comparison.  But even the latter were unnecessarily complicated:  why two diff length blocks & hole spacings?  The base of the front mount was shorter than that of the rear, but that would not have prevented using the longer rear block for it, too.  Using one size block front & rear would have simplified stocking for the factory & ordering for customers.

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