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Gallery gun speed loader
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Posts: 104
November 11, 2021 - 3:32 pm

1sp_QuotePost

I know I have read in this forum about the history of the Gallery Speed loaders but I can not seem to find the same.  I was wondering when they first came out.  Seems I remember they were actually made by Western for Winchester and later Winchester sold the business to Western and they had Westerns name only after that.

I see a lot of 1890’s that the seller claims were gallery guns and most that I have seen have a modified magazine, pretty easy to spot in most cases.   I would think there was 1890 shorts used in galleries but were they really specifically manufactured for that purpose as the 62 was?  Did Winchester build a 1890 with the special magazine for a gallery speed loader or did the speed loader even exist at the time the 1890 was manufactured.  

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Los Angeles
Posts: 379
November 11, 2021 - 4:05 pm
2sp_QuotePost

I’m sure others can contribute to the history more than I, but your comment about the lineage from Winchester to Western branding of the loaders reminded me that I have two of them that demonstrate that in their stamping. 

IMG_6330.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_6334.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_6332.jpegImage EnlargerIMG_6331.jpegImage Enlarger

 

Steve

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WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.

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Posts: 104
November 11, 2021 - 4:18 pm

3sp_QuotePost

I own a 62a gallery with the roll stamp on the receiver.  I also have the two different speed loaders, a box of 250 Peters Crumble gallery bullets .  The only thing I am missing in the spring and the strap that goes around the barrel.  I am shopping for those parts but no luck to date.

I was really wanting to find a little bit of red paint in the role stamp but Bert tells me the came in different colors and some just plain blued which is what I think mine is.

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Los Angeles
Posts: 379
November 11, 2021 - 4:28 pm
4sp_QuotePost

jerry thomas said
I own a 62a gallery with the roll stamp on the receiver.  I also have the two different speed loaders, a box of 250 Peters Crumble gallery bullets .  The only thing I am missing in the spring and the strap that goes around the barrel.  I am shopping for those parts but no luck to date.

I was really wanting to find a little bit of red paint in the role stamp but Bert tells me the came in different colors and some just plain blued which is what I think mine is.  

Yea, I have 2 62a’s one with and one without the roll stamp. My roll stamp has a tiny bit of red left in the corners but you really have to look for it.

I was lucky to find the leash from a member here on the forum. I have seen them on eBay occasionally but it’s been awhile.

 

Steve

WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.

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NY
Posts: 6157
November 12, 2021 - 4:00 am

5sp_QuotePost

supergimp said
 I have seen them on eBay occasionally but it’s been awhile.

Even “occasionally” surprises me, because, unless it was still attached to the gun, I think even most Winchester collectors would have no idea what it was!  I wouldn’t, if I hadn’t seen a drawing in the catalog.

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 788
November 13, 2021 - 3:16 pm

6sp_QuotePost

Just an observation:  I have only seen one 1890 gallery “spring strap”.  It was angled to fit the octagon barrel, where the Model 62 straps are arched to fit the round barrel.  RDB

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Posts: 4520
November 14, 2021 - 12:59 am

7sp_QuotePost

I saw one recently but I can’t remember where??  I’ve only seen a few over the years.  My friend had a couple of devices to load and store the tubes.  You dumped in a bunch of rounds and cracked a handle.  I’m not sure where he found these but they did not stay on his table for long.  Sold for a lot of money too.

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Location: 32000' +
Posts: 2089
November 17, 2021 - 12:31 am

8sp_QuotePost

jerry thomas said
I know I have read in this forum about the history of the Gallery Speed loaders but I can not seem to find the same.  I was wondering when they first came out.  Seems I remember they were actually made by Western for Winchester and later Winchester sold the business to Western and they had Westerns name only after that.

I see a lot of 1890’s that the seller claims were gallery guns and most that I have seen have a modified magazine, pretty easy to spot in most cases.   I would think there was 1890 shorts used in galleries but were they really specifically manufactured for that purpose as the 62 was?  Did Winchester build a 1890 with the special magazine for a gallery speed loader or did the speed loader even exist at the time the 1890 was manufactured.    

 

Hi Jerry,

Sorry I am late to the conversation, have not been home and have had little access to the forum.  I wrote a book (now out of print) on the history of mechanical shooting galleries and co-authored another book on shooting gallery targets titled Step Right Up! with the Tuckers.  

Here is a review of the Tucker’s book – https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/fun-with-guns-the-art-of-the-arcade-target/

To answer your specific question, and for some additional background information, here is a chronological excerpt from my previous book entitled A History of Mechanical Shooting Galleries Copyright (c) 2010 by Jeffery W. Abendshien (reprinted here by permission);

– The loading tube concept was patented in 1879 by T.G. Bennet (a Winchester employee).

– The concept was first designed for the lever action rifles with the King’s improvement loading gate and later adapted to gallery rifles.

– In 1907 E. E. Drake patented a similar loading tube (after the Winchester patent expired) but it was made of cardboard.

– In 1909 A. F. Laudensack invented the metal tube we see today but with a spring loaded lever at the end to regulate the cartridges and keep them from falling out when transporting the tube.

– The tubular carrier/cartridge loader was patented in 1912 by F. O. Hoagland. This is the loader made from sheetmetal with simple crimps to retain the cartridges and marks to indicate the number of cartridges loaded.

– In 1913 F. O. Hoagland updated the patent with an additional modification of numbers and holes on the tube to indicate the number of inserted cartridges but the extra cost of manufacturing these made them short-lived.

– In 1914 John M. Browning patented a cardboard loading tube with a simple crimped end. Although John Browning produced a great many firearm innovations this patent does not seem to be unique or a large improvement over Drake’s 1907 patent.

– In 1926/27 when Winchester began expanding its line to include hardware items they manufactured the plain steel loading tubes, the concept of which, ironically, they had originally patented 47 years earlier in 1879. The tubes are listed in their catalogs of the period for .15 cents each.

– In 1927 R. G. Clyne invented the rotating cartridge magazine loader. Since Winchester was starting to sell the gallery tubes they immediately bought the patent rights and produced the loader almost identical to the submitted patent drawings.

– The tubes produced by Winchester from 1927 – 1931 are marked Winchester Trademark Made in USA (with several variations).  Note: These are the same markings as on the rotating cartridge carriers.

– The tubes made after the purchase of Winchester by the Western Cartridge Company in 1931 are marked Winchester Western or Western Trademarks Winchester Made in USA.  Note: These are the same markings as on the rotating cartridge carriers.

– The tubes made after WWII are unmarked. 

– Winchester made tubes of blued steel (most common), in the white (no bluing or coating) and some nickel plated tubes.

– The last tubes supplied by Winchester in the 1950’s and through the 1960’s were simple copper tubes crimped on one end and beveled on the opposite end. These tubes do not work well with the rotating magazine loader and were normally filled by hand.

The Winchester steel magazine tube was designed to be specifically used in the rotating magazine tube loader. After the original patent expiration, many companies manufactured and sold magazine loading tubes. Most were simple affairs that required loading by hand. Due to the simple tube design, many galleries made their own loading tubes.

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

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Los Angeles
Posts: 379
November 17, 2021 - 1:05 am
9sp_QuotePost

That’s some great insight, Jeff. I’ve been following this thread as I’m a complete novice by comparison, but my fascination with a time when you when society accepted shooting sports has led me to own three Winchester Gallery Guns. Anyway, I just thought I’d share this video of a restored mechanical shooting gallery I came across a while ago.

My dream would be to one day have a full Mo-Skeet-O setup. A man can dream.

 

 

Steve

WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.

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NY
Posts: 6157
November 17, 2021 - 1:32 am

10sp_QuotePost

supergimp said
I’ve been following this thread as I’m a complete novice by comparison, but my fascination with a time when you when society accepted shooting sports has led me to own three Winchester Gallery Guns. 

Shooting gallery scenes were common in pre-war films, but the most fascinating one I’ve seen (& having prints of 3 or 4 thousand pre-war films, I think I’ve seen most of them) occurs in “The Last Flight,” 1931, a grim but fascinating story about three burned-out, fatalistic, WW I pilots drinking & carousing themselves to death in Europe after the war; the shooting gallery scene illustrates why tethers were a good idea.  Available through TCM, where I first saw it.

Shooting galleries were still a part of the county fair when I was in high school, but I honestly don’t remember being particularly enthralled by them, because, not only were all the kids WELL aware that all the games were rigged, but shooting was something I did all the time, so nothing special.  I was more interested in the rides, & esp. the freak shows! 

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Posts: 39
November 17, 2021 - 4:53 am

11sp_QuotePost
We’re fortunate in the Dallas area to have a nice .22 shooting gallery at a public range, open Wed-Sun.
 
Here’s an article on the gallery, located at the Elm Fork range in far west Dallas, roughly halfway between Love Field and DFW airport:
 
I have a 12 year old who enjoys going; we’ll usually take along one or two of his friends.  We use a Win 1906, a Win 61, and a couple of Win 63’s, all using 22LR.  His favorite gun is a motley iron-sighted 63 with which he can frequently ring the rotating gong 10 out of 10 times.  We do also use the gallery loading tubes, typically with two people shooting and one person loading – a box of ammo doesn’t last long!
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Posts: 308
November 17, 2021 - 5:15 am

12sp_QuotePost

Speaking of shooting galleries, below is a picture of me at the shooting gallery in Coney Island in May of 1956.

If you hit the bullseye, it took your picture.  I did and it did.

The excited swabbie next to me is my shipmate Mike Pore from Kalamazoo Michigan.

I was assigned to the troop and dependent transport, the USS Gen. H. W. Butner T-AP 113 home ported at the Brooklyn Army Base.  If you were in the Army back then and went to Germany, we may have given you a ride over and/or back.

I do not remember what the gun was and I still have the original picture.  I may have posted it once before on the forum several years ago.

Jolly

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NY
Posts: 6157
November 17, 2021 - 1:18 pm

13sp_QuotePost

jolly bill said
Speaking of shooting galleries, below is a picture of me at the shooting gallery in Coney Island in May of 1956.
 

GREAT photo!  The tether looks too long to have prevented a psycho from committing mayhem, if he chose to do so.  I’m inclined to believe the chief purpose of tethers was to prevent theft, not indiscriminate mass murder, which in 1956 hadn’t become one of our national pastimes; not yet, but Dr. Spock & the liberal establishment were even then working to make that happen.

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Posts: 104
November 17, 2021 - 3:27 pm

14sp_QuotePost

Thank all you folks.  The information JWA provided is really interesting. 

I have seen a number of 1890’s that the seller claims is a “Gallery” rifle.  In most cases it is easy to see the magazine loading port has been modified to look as if it was a factory magazine.  I would guess there would have been 1890’s used in galleries but I am not sure if any were actually produced for that specific use.  I have both the Western and the Winchester speed loader tubes.  Seen a few loaders on the net , a plastic deal that has tubes inside it that rotate around inside the plastic tube.

I will keep up my search for the tether for my gallery.  Bert gave me some interesting information concerning the roll stamping on the receiver.  I was looking for residue from red paint and could not find any on my gallery.  Bert said Winchester used Red, Yellow , white and sometimes just plan blued the receiver.  I think mine was just plain blued as there is no evidence the rifle has been reblued. 

I was raised in a small town in southeast Missouri and the only memory I have of a gallery was those that came with a traveling carnival .  Only a few would let a kid shoot.  My uncle owned a sporting good store so shooting a rifle was no big deal.  Like some of you guys I was more interested in getting sick riding the rides.

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Posts: 4520
November 17, 2021 - 8:50 pm

15sp_QuotePost

Anybody recognize Texas Jack Morales, AKA Bubba?

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Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 788
November 18, 2021 - 11:29 am

16sp_QuotePost

I thought that was Bubba!  I met him back in the 90’s at the Pomona Show.  I still have the Model 64 25/35 Deer Rifle carbine I bought from him and Denny.  RDB

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Posts: 4520
November 18, 2021 - 8:48 pm

17sp_QuotePost

Bubba and his wife were in Colorado Springs too. 

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Posts: 104
November 19, 2021 - 5:49 pm

18sp_QuotePost

I got lucky and found a new old stock tether right here in Missouri.   it was posted right here on this forum.  Turns out the seller knows some of my friends from shooting in competition here in Jefferson City.

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Posts: 4520
November 19, 2021 - 6:17 pm

19sp_QuotePost

jerry thomas said
I got lucky and found a new old stock tether right here in Missouri.   it was posted right here on this forum.  Turns out the seller knows some of my friends from shooting in competition here in Jefferson City.  

Was is posted recently?  Maybe that is the one I saw?

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