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Interesting information. Had somebody measure all lengths from barrel to band, and mag tube and said were correct. If it was done, it was a long time ago, as the crown on the barrel is perfect and aged like the rest of the gun. Somebody said, could have been a special order rifle for a child or woman. No way to know for sure. Shoots really sweet and since I traded for it, I am not over the top money in it. I think I gave about $250 trade value years ago. Thanks for the input!
Andy
Andy Kessner
[email protected]
"A Collector of Winchester Rifles"
Member Winchester Arms Collectors Association-7947
Member of Cody Firearms Museum
Member Houston Gun Collector Association
Lifetime Member of the NRA
Lifetime Member of Texas State Rifle Association
Andy,
You just gave the proof that the gun is not factory original. At the time it was manufactured Winchester finished all standard round barrel with a perfectly flat face! If yours is indeed crowned it was done by someone else.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Ahh, good to know. Thanks for the heads up. It appears I have a Franken61. I’ll give it to my grandson for a shooter..
Andy Kessner
[email protected]
"A Collector of Winchester Rifles"
Member Winchester Arms Collectors Association-7947
Member of Cody Firearms Museum
Member Houston Gun Collector Association
Lifetime Member of the NRA
Lifetime Member of Texas State Rifle Association
November 7, 2015
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akessner said
Ahh, good to know. Thanks for the heads up. It appears I have a Franken61. I’ll give it to my grandson for a shooter..
The Cabela’s in Ft Worth has (had?) a very similar rifle. Story is it was cut down many years ago for a woman of short stature, stock was shortened a bit as well. Like yours, very good workmanship. I knew it wasn’t original when I saw it but it looked right.
Mike
Hello,
I am adding serial number 77275 and 80472 to the above listing of fake and altered rifles. SN 77275 was auctioned at RIA in Dec 2017 Lot #364. Read the description VERY carefully and it references the rifle as “restored” and the “the added custom roll die “WINCHESTER” marking on the left side of the receiver, gallery style loading port” Who knows if the OB is original or not but the rifle certainly is most likely not original in any manner. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/72/364/winchester-model-61-slide-action-rifle
SN 80472 falls into the “highly suspect” category since it was offered on Gunbroker out of Henryetta, OK which is the same seller who was selling many of Charles Key’s known fake guns. The preverbal walks like and quacks like the n most likely a duck!!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Hello all,
I had the sad job of informing another collector that one of his guns was a fake a few weeks ago. I added 154602 to the list on page one. I originally sawa this rifle in 2013 on Gunbroker as a standard rifle sold out of Remlap, AL. It was purchased in Nov of that year at the Tulsa show from CH Key as a fine looking Long Rifle Only configuration!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Online
akessner said
Interesting information. Had somebody measure all lengths from barrel to band, and mag tube and said were correct. If it was done, it was a long time ago, as the crown on the barrel is perfect and aged like the rest of the gun. Somebody said, could have been a special order rifle for a child or woman. No way to know for sure. Shoots really sweet and since I traded for it, I am not over the top money in it. I think I gave about $250 trade value years ago. Thanks for the input!Andy
This looks like a fun shooter. The novelty of the short barrel has some additive appeal. The main thing is no one was ripped off. You don’t have more than a shooter rifle cost into it. You’re not going to lose money on it if you sell it. Actually, (and advertising it as modified) I could see it bringing a couple hundred more than you paid for it on gunbroker. I say this because of the novelty aspect and also because people will pay high prices for about anything on gunbroker!
Twobit,
Need to add serial number 103814 to you list if you don’t already have it. The barrel has been shortened by about 2 inches or so, iron sights removed and was drill and taped for scope mounts. I bought this rifle as a shooter and plan to keep it as such. I would how ever like to have the iron sights and a standard length barrel installed.
Mike
U.S. Army combat vet, 32 years CCFD Lt. (retired), NRA Benefactor member, Marlin Firearms Collector Asso., Cody Firearms Museum member - 89213093, WACA member - 11928, Griffin Gun Club board member, Hunter, BPCR shooter, Hand loader, Bullet Caster
Lt. Mike said
Twobit,Need to add serial number 103814 to you list if you don’t already have it. The barrel has been shortened by about 2 inches or so, iron sights removed and was drill and taped for scope mounts. I bought this rifle as a shooter and plan to keep it as such. I would how ever like to have the iron sights and a standard length barrel installed.
Mike
Hello Mike,
I saw that rifle when it was auctions by Belcher Auctions in 2016 and then again when listed by Cabela’s. Look here for your parts needs: https://homesteadparts.com/shop/winchester-model-61-c-1_21.html
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Michael,
Yes I believe you are correct on the Cabela’s part, the fellow I bought it from said he got it from them. I have a friend that has a basket case 61 that has a fairly good barrel, but I haven’t decided to go there yet. The rifle shoots pretty good as is, I am just not sure I like not having iron sights. I’m old school I guess but I like the option of removing a scope, if I have too, and still be able to use my rifle.
U.S. Army combat vet, 32 years CCFD Lt. (retired), NRA Benefactor member, Marlin Firearms Collector Asso., Cody Firearms Museum member - 89213093, WACA member - 11928, Griffin Gun Club board member, Hunter, BPCR shooter, Hand loader, Bullet Caster
Gents,
Old thread …I know. However RIA caught my eye.
Not only are some items faked, enhanced , embellished, but often desireable items never get auctioned . The said items are often saved for others, friends , etc. allegedly.
Michael,
I see mod 61 #28721 in 22 long rifle only, octagon barrel & tang peep sight, described as super high condition, extraordinarily rare and spectacular! Piqued my interest so I’d like to ensure it’s the real deal. Has it shown up before? I could post link if necessary.
Regards, Darrin
Darrin;
Twobit, will be along soon with a better answer than mine. I have S/N 28813, 22 long rifle which I think it the real deal. I see quite a bunch of LRs in this time frame ( 1937 ). Not so with WRF or 22 short.
RR
Darrin Smith said
Michael,I see mod 61 #28721 in 22 long rifle only, octagon barrel & tang peep sight, described as super high condition, extraordinarily rare and spectacular! Piqued my interest so I’d like to ensure it’s the real deal. Has it shown up before? I could post link if necessary.
Regards, Darrin
Good morning Darrin,
That rifle was at RIA in May of this year and that was the first time I had seen it for sale. The rifle was definitely in good condition. There was some right hand slide and barrel wear along with a bit of bluing missing where the original rear sight had been located. A newly faked gun probably would not have that. It sold for just short of $3000. https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/88/3045/winchester-model-61-octagon-barrel-slide-action-rifle
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Win61 said
DarrinTwobit, will be along soon with a better answer than mine. I have S/N 28813, 22 long rifle which I think it the real deal. I see quite a bunch of LRs in this time frame ( 1937 ). Not so with WRF or 22 short.
RR
Here is a small portion of my spreadsheet showing both rifles. Yes there were a significant number of Long Rifle only configurations manufactured. I own SN 28624 in Short Only.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
twobit said
Win61 said
Darrin
Twobit, will be along soon with a better answer than mine. I have S/N 28813, 22 long rifle which I think it the real deal. I see quite a bunch of LRs in this time frame ( 1937 ). Not so with WRF or 22 short.
RR
Here is a small portion of my spreadsheet showing both rifles. Yes there were a significant number of Long Rifle only configurations manufactured. I own SN 28624 in Short Only.
Michael
Exactly the information I was hoping to find.
Thank you sir!
Darrin
Glad to help Darrin. I am interested in any Model 61 rifle that you might come across so that I can add it into my data. That is how questions like yours can be answered.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Sure thing! I have sent you info on the two I currently own. I greatly appreciate your willingness to share the fruits of your labor!
Regards,
Darrin
Darrin Smith said
Sure thing! I have sent you info on the two I currently own. I greatly appreciate your willingness to share the fruits of your labor!Regards,
Darrin
Darrin,
Could you please take a look at your rifle 35378 and tell me if the end of the magazine has a reinforcing “collar” on it?
Thanks
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
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