Avatar

Please consider registering
guest

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters




sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_Print sp_TopicIcon
Books
November 18, 2016
2:43 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Showing my age (56) but I’m looking to add a book or two to my Winchester reference library. I’ve made one pass thru Madis but next pass I’ll pay a bit more attention to the .22 rifles as I’ve gotten pretty curious about them and Winchester shotguns recently. I have Wilson’s coffee table book, Madis’s handbook ( thanks Vince!) Williamson’s lever action book. I know so much info is available on the net but I still enjoy kicking back with a book most nights.

Thinking about Schwing’s book on the slide action 22’s but quite honestly the bolt guns interest me a bit more.

Suggestions? Hoping to slip up to McMurtry’s book shop some day soon, seems he’s quite a book collector but from his writings I’m pretty sure he’s not much of a firearms fan.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 18, 2016
2:35 pm
Avatar
Location: 32000' +
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1627
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hi TXGunNut,

Welcome to the wonderful world of Winchester .22 Rimfire!  There are a number of good books on the subject but currently the best overall books on the bolt action Winchester .22 rifles are those by Herbert Houze.

To the Dreams of Youth: .22 Caliber Single Shot Rifles by Herbert Houze which can be found used in the $35+ range is a great all around book on the Winchester bolt action .22 single shots.

The Winchester 52: Perfection in Design by Herbert Houze which can be found in the $bazillion+ range for an original hardback is THE reference book on the bolt action Model 52 but does not cover any other models.

If you are interested in the slide action models (especially the 1890/1906/62) then of course the 2 book set by Schwing is the best and if you are interested in the Model 61 then the nice little $35 book The Winchester Model Sixty-One by C.H. Key is excellent.

The Winchester Single Shot (volumes I & II) by John Campbell is a good reference for the falling block action Model 1885 and variants.

And finally, if you can wait a little bit longer, I will have a book specifically on the bolt action repeater Model 69/69A to the printers soon which will have over 300 pages and 600 photos, drawings and illustrations on the Model 69 and subsequent 69A.  It details the design history and evolution of the Model 69 with emphasis on production changes with cataloged/un-catalogued variations and is written with the collector in mind (similar in format to The Rifleman’s Rifle: Winchester’s Model 70, 1936-1963 by Roger Rule).

Hope that helps.

Best Regards,

 

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

November 18, 2016
11:45 pm
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3388
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

JWA said The Winchester 52: Perfection in Design by Herbert Houze which can be found in the $bazillion+ range for an original hardback is THE reference book on the bolt action Model 52 but does not cover any other models.
 

 

  

No doubt about it being “the” 52 reference book (the only one I’m aware of), but there are some strange “voids” in its coverage.  For ex., I always wondered why a rifle the company hoped might be adopted by the Army as a training rifle would have been designed to cock on closing; no comment either on why that decision was later reversed.  No comment on the well-known tendency of the locking-lug abutment to crack on pre-A receivers. Nevertheless, I’ve resisted the occasional impulse to “cash in” on the rather ridiculous price it brings on ebay because I love the period photos and ads. 

November 19, 2016
10:57 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

JWA said
WACA Moderators,

You might want to move this thread to the .22 Rim Fire section for better exposure instead of Swap Meet for others that may have .22 book comments – thanks.

Regards,  

Thanks, was not sure where the thread actually belonged. At this point I’m interested in almost every 22 Winchester and haven’t developed any favorites. I like the 1885 and the 52 for a precision rifle and the little 1890’s for fun guns. I know next to nothing about the 69 and most other models so it may be awhile before I even go looking for a .22.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 21, 2016
3:19 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hmmm…..re-read Madis’ sections dealing with .22’s, dabbled around the red book and fondled a few shooter .22’s this weekend. Still clueless. Saw a nice enough Target 75 (SN 46144) that was covered in grime, missing the front sight and rear peep (Vaver) insert missing. Marked $499 but I think after sitting another week or so I can get it for a price in line with a 70% gun.

Anything I need to look for on this old rifle?

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 21, 2016
3:34 am
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3388
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said
Marked $499 but I think after sitting another week or so I can get it for a price in line with a 70% gun.
 
   

Money would be better applied toward a 70% (or better) 52, in my opinion.  The best 75 in the world is STILL a second-rater, compared to a 52.

November 21, 2016
3:50 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I’ve actually fondled it twice now and I’m inclined to agree. At this point if it doesn’t jump off the rack into my arms and lead me to the sales counter I’m probably not going to buy it. I think there are other guns from this collection that aren’t on display yet. I’m thinking the previous owner robbed parts off this gun to put them on better guns, not a good sign. There were two at least two 52’s in this collection; one is a custom match gun with many non-original parts and the other is a beater. The 75 may be closer to an 80% gun after a bit of careful cleaning and some parts scrounging but I’m thinking of it as a 70% gun. I’m thinking there may be some money to be made in the investment-grade .22’s in coming years so I think you’re right, I’ll probably pass on this one. Thanks.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 21, 2016
2:13 pm
Avatar
Location: 32000' +
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1627
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said 
Saw a nice enough Target 75 (SN 46144) that was covered in grime, missing the front sight and rear peep (Vaver) insert missing. Marked $499 but I think after sitting another week or so I can get it for a price in line with a 70% gun.

Anything I need to look for on this old rifle?  

For a nice shooter-grade 75 Target $499 is a good deal for a 90%+ rifle and is a bit high for a standard 75 Target in 70% (or less) condition.  BUT if it has the Vaver 3875 rear sight it is one of the harder to find sight configurations in the Model 75’s to acquire (Winchester catalog number G7527R).  Finding the matching front Vaver 1175 sight will be a challenge as they routinely go for $100+ if you can find one.

Having said that, as a collector I would personally probably still buy it just for the Vaver rear sight but for you it is probably not the best first addition to your 75 collection as you can get a much nicer condition rifle for the same $$ if you are patient.  As with most Winchesters, condition and originality is very important when collecting .22 rimfire rifles, the higher the condition, the faster increase in value over time.  Keep that in mind when shopping.

Best Regards,

PS: When searching for Model 75’s always check that the bolt number matches the rifle serial number.  Mismatched numbers detrimentally affect collector value and can easily be overlooked during the examination process.  The bolt numbers are etched on the underside of the bolt (similar to the Model 70), simply remove the bolt and turn it over to compare with the receiver serial number.  Many of the former US military Model 75’s have mismatched bolts.

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

November 23, 2016
2:28 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Thanks, JWA. Couldn’t tell, are the sight apertures for the Vaver sights standard thread? I’m pretty sure I can get it under $400 and have plenty of points available to make it a pretty good deal. Spent yesterday evening studying the red book and I better understand what Clarence told me. A decent 52 doesn’t go for a lot more than the 75. Still think there’s a reason why the previous owner robbed the sights off this rifle. I’ll lean on the manager (and bring my bore light) this  weekend. The 75 may be a fun plinker but I’m thinking there may be something better down the road.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 26, 2016
11:37 pm
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Fondled it again today, decided it’s actually a 90% gun. Getting a bit of fingerprint rust but thinking that will clean off. Bore is bright, rear apertures are apparently standard thread size, trigger is good. Manager was busy and wasn’t able to negotiate much of a deal with another guy. I have a few Marble front sights, think I even have a hooded Lyman 17 around here somewhere.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 27, 2016
8:39 pm
Avatar
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 37
Member Since:
August 21, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

While it basically deals with the Model 52 Winchester there is some info about other .22 rifles. I have both of these and enjoy them. .22 Caliber Rifle Shooting and Hunting with the Twenty-Two by C.S. Landis.

Jim

Life Member WACA & NRA

November 28, 2016
1:50 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I saw those books on Amazon and was wondering about them, Jim. Thanks for the recommendation.

I bought the rifle today, it truly appears to be a 90% + gun. Only bluing wear is on the trigger guard and only a couple of very small handling marks. Bore cleaned up very well, scoped it and saw very little to no wear on the throat and nothing but minor tool marks in the bore. Had something in the bore just back of the front scope mount screws but Kroil got it out. The surface rust from two weeks on the used gun rack came off with CLP and very little elbow grease; no damage to the blue. Didn’t even see any bluing wear at the edge of the muzzle. Used a bit of Birchwood Casey stock sheen to get the grubby fingerprints off the stock. Not bad for a gun that cost less than $275 after discounts and points. Smile

Serial #46144, same number etched on the bottom of the bolt. I think that makes it a 1942 production but the chart in chapter 8 of the Red Book seems to conflict with the description in chapter 5 but it’s been a long day and I probably missed something.

I seriously considered waiting for a nice 52 but that’s a bit more money than I want to spend at the moment. This gun’s a little too nice to shoot but I think I will. Even bought some Eley ammo just to see what it will do. Pretty sure it will take a better shooter than me to figure that out, tho. Wink

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 28, 2016
2:03 am
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3388
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ohiochuck said
While it basically deals with the Model 52 Winchester there is some info about other .22 rifles. I have both of these and enjoy them. .22 Caliber Rifle Shooting and Hunting with the Twenty-Two by C.S. Landis.

Jim  

Not sure how appealing it would be to those seeking mainly technical info on 52s, but .22 Caliber Rifle Shooting is simply my single favorite gun book (and I have virtually everything else by Landis and his contemporaries–Crossman, Whelen, etc.).  When I first discovered it over 40 yrs ago, it was such a revelation that I studied it like a seminarian studies his Bible. And Hunting with the Twenty-Two, acquired a little later, is my #2 favorite.

November 28, 2016
2:12 am
Avatar
Kingston, WA
Forum Posts: 11941
Member Since:
April 15, 2005
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said 
 
Serial #46144, same number etched on the bottom of the bolt. I think that makes it a 1942 production but the chart in chapter 8 of the Red Book seems to conflict with the description in chapter 5 but it’s been a long day and I probably missed something. Wink  

Mike,

Serial number 46144 is listed in the Red Book as being manufactured in the year 1937, and Chapter 5 and Chapter 8 are in perfect agreement that serial number 66684 was the last one manufactured in the year 1942.  Per Herb Houze’s fine reference book on the Model 52, it is a September 1937 rifle.

OK, great catch by you and Jeff.  The ending number in the Chapter 8 table is incorrect for the Model 75Embarassed  Please use the number in Chapter 5.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

November 28, 2016
2:36 am
Avatar
Location: 32000' +
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 1627
Member Since:
July 17, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Bert H. said

Mike,

Serial number 46144 is listed in the Red Book as being manufactured in the year 1937, and Chapter 5 and Chapter 8 are in perfect agreement that serial number 66684 was the last one manufactured in the year 1942.  Per Herb Houze’s fine reference book on the Model 52, it is a September 1937 rifle.

Bert  

Bert,

I think he is referring to a Model 75 Target, not a 52.

Regards,

WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

http://rimfirepublications.com/  

November 28, 2016
3:16 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Herb Houze, heard that name somewhere. Sounds like I need to add his book to my shopping list.

Got a better look at the muzzle with a good light, just a bit of wear at the edge of the muzzle. As sharp as that edge is that seems remarkable. I’ll post pics when I get them. It was overcast when I got in tonight and I won’t be around here during daylight hours for awhile. I have a good light over my loading bench, may try some pics there later this week.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 28, 2016
4:56 am
Avatar
NY
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3388
Member Since:
November 1, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

TXGunNut said
Herb Houze, heard that name somewhere. Sounds like I need to add his book to my shopping list.
   

Definitely–but for the 52 book, prepare for a shock. 

November 29, 2016
3:39 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

clarence said

Definitely–but for the 52 book, prepare for a shock.   

I’ve only been collecting for a few years but I’ve found that the Winchester books I’ve bought & read have helped me recognize good deals and avoid bad ones. My Madis book paid for itself and then some before I finished reading it. Larry and Bert’s book have helped me re-think my collecting goals and strategies. I think a comprehensive reference library is as important as a good bore light for folks like us. Many of the books are out of print and the info a bit dated but that’s OK. I understand that we live in the information age but I still prefer hard copy or whatever they call it now. When you look for an answer to a question on the ‘net you’ll generally find it. When you read a book you’ll find answers to questions you didn’t know enough to ask.

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 30, 2016
3:27 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Will try to add a few pics.

 

IMG_1250.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1251.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1256-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1257-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1258-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1259-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1261.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1262.JPGImage Enlarger

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
November 30, 2016
3:31 am
Avatar
Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
WACA Member
Forum Posts: 3457
Member Since:
November 7, 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

IMG_1262-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1261-1.JPGImage EnlargerIMG_1259.JPGImage EnlargerTry a few more:

sp_PlupAttachments Attachments
Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Forum Timezone: UTC 0

Most Users Ever Online: 628

Currently Online: Bill Hockett, mrcvs, Manuel, lottomaxk
68 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)


Forum Stats:

Groups: 1

Forums: 16

Topics: 9346

Posts: 80603


Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1262

Members: 10753

Moderators: 4

Admins: 3


Top Posters:

1873man: 4975

TXGunNut: 3457

clarence: 3388

Chuck: 2949

twobit: 2741

steve004: 2528

Maverick: 1852

Big Larry: 1632

JWA: 1627

RickC: 1474