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A curious problem Win 1906
June 23, 2016
1:18 am
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Rick Cornuelle
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The gun is a Win 1906 with the receiver dating to 1911.

Here's what happens:

Cycling an empty rifle, the action is butter smooth with little force needed to open (and close) the bolt.

After firing a .22 short, there is a noticeable increase in the force needed to open the bolt.

After firing a .22LR, it's almost hard work to cycle the bolt. From the first inch or so of forearm travel, which lifts the bolt lugs out of the receiver, to full rearward motion, it takes some effort to complete. Closing is easy as with an empty gun.

Too deep for me. I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

June 23, 2016
4:14 am
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Kingston, WA
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Rick,

I highly suspect that the chamber is either very dirty, or it has pitted or rough spots in it. Carefully visually inspect the empty cases. If you see nothing, close your eyes, then using your finger tips, traverse the case from end to end while slowing spinning the case, and feel for any irregular or bulges on the outside of the empty case.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

June 23, 2016
3:00 pm
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Rick Cornuelle
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I'll report back. If true, I'll be sorry I used my real name on the post. 

The gun is prolly due for its ten year cleaning.

June 23, 2016
4:28 pm
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Location: 32000' +
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Bert H. said
Rick,
I highly suspect that the chamber is either very dirty, or it has pitted or rough spots in it. Carefully visually inspect the empty cases. If you see nothing, close your eyes, then using your finger tips, traverse the case from end to end while slowing spinning the case, and feel for any irregular or bulges on the outside of the empty case.
Bert  

Yep, I agree with Bert, the most common cause of your symptom is a dirty/pitted/eroded chamber. 

You can also give it a look to see if there is a ding on the edge of the chamber mouth from the firing pin.  Excessive dry firing can sometimes damage the  chamber edge which affects feeding and extraction.  If that is the case it can usually be easily fixed with a chamber iron.

Regards,

WACA Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire

June 25, 2016
2:51 pm
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Rick Cornuelle
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Took the gun down and cleaned the chamber from the breech end. Sparkling clean. Had the barrel relined maybe a thousand or two rounds ago, so there's no pitting. At least, none discernible to the eye.

Same result; very difficult extraction.

The problem is fairly recent but I don't remember if it is coincident with the relining.

Using standard velocity LR, 1050-1070 fps.

So, dunno. Maybe the chamber is a bit oversized and the cases expand too much. Although, would that matter? Whether the chamber is at spec or a bit bigger, the case is going to expand to fit when fired, and I'd think would extract equally well (or unwell) either way?

Thanks for your interest.

June 25, 2016
2:54 pm
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Kingston, WA
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Rick,

Are you seeing any visible case deformation or discoloration?

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

June 26, 2016
2:46 pm
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Rick Cornuelle
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No discoloration or deformation. 

June 26, 2016
4:43 pm
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Kingston, WA
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OK... next step is measure the diameter of the empty case at various points along the length of the case. If a 22 Short shell is hard to extract, start with the section of the case closest to the breech.

Bert

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

June 27, 2016
6:51 pm
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Rick Cornuelle
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Measurements on long rifle cases, average readings on eight cases:

mouth .2278

mid .2291

head above rim .2294

If one can anticipate your direction, the chamber is oversized by a couple thousandths. But, even if so, why would that make extraction difficult? The case expands to whatever the chamber diameter is, then should extract "normally". Perhaps a bad analogy, but taking a size 13 boot off of a size 13 foot shouldn't be more difficult than taking a size 10 boot off of a size 10 foot.

Further, at the end of the pressure curve the case tries to return to original size. In an oversize chamber, shouldn't extraction then be easier than in a normally sized chamber?

With all that said, I'm obviously missing something, as the bloody cases don't want to leave the chamber.

Thank you.

Rick

June 27, 2016
7:46 pm
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Kingston, WA
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Rick Cornuelle said 

Further, at the end of the pressure curve the case tries to return to original size. In an oversize chamber, shouldn't extraction then be easier than in a normally sized chamber?

With all that said, I'm obviously missing something, as the bloody cases don't want to leave the chamber.

Thank you.

Rick  

Rick,

In an oversized chamber, the case will stretch beyond its elastic limits, and it will not return to its original size.  If the chamber is too large, the case can split longitudinally.  If you can, send me clear close-up pictures of the fired cases that did not extract cleanly.

Bert - Win1885@msn.com

WACA 6571L, Historian & Board of Director Member
High-walls-1-002-C-reduced2.jpg

June 28, 2016
11:26 pm
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Rick Cornuelle
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Bert, sent you pictures by email.

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