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Last fall I acquired a Model 697 with the 5X Win. scope from Amoskeag Auction Co. (see back cover of the Winter 2016 “Winchester Collector” bottom item)
It has the first model safety, so it is not an “A” model.
I understand these were only made for a few months so are there any production figures available?
Thanks,
Roger
Hi Roger and congratulations on your acquisition!
The 697 is one of the harder variations of the Model 69 to find. There were three catalogued versions of the 697 offered by Winchester. If yours has the 5x scope the factory catalog number for your rifle is G69750R. The 2 3/4x “crosshair” scope 697 is G69760R and the 2 3/4x “post” scope 697 is G69766R. The 5x scoped 697 is the version most commonly encountered.
The 697 was made from 1937-1941 so it was sold by Winchester for much longer than “a few months”. The 697 was initially listed in the 1937 price catalog but the first 697 was not delivered to the warehouse until June of 1937. It was listed in the catalogs through 1940 and was discontinued just prior to June 1941 according to Winchester records.
There are certainly some production, sales and order tidbits to be found in the Winchester files at Cody. Vincent Rausch has written a few articles published in Man at Arms based on this material (see the April 2010 edition). When using the Winchester information the researcher has to be careful to separate the “Production” numbers from the “Order” numbers as they do not match. In most cases there were more or less orders than what was actually produced. In the Rausch articles he used the yearly 697 figures of;
1937 – 502
1938 – 214
1939 – 78
1940 – 90
1941 – 547
for a total of 1,431 Model 697’s “produced”. However, those numbers are actually from the Winchester Order tables for the 697 and are not the actual production figures which were a bit higher than the number of orders due to a parts cleanup at the end of production in 1941. If I recall correctly I think the actual production amount of the 697 (all three 697 model variations combined) was a little over 1,600 units.
Hope that helps.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA
Thank you for the information.
I just thought to check the barrel date – “37”
Any records showing when they changed the safety from the rear to the side on the 697?
RDB
Roger,
Please bring this rifle to the November Big Reno show, and I will bring Jeff over to your table to look at it in person.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Roger Baker said
JWAThank you for the information.
I just thought to check the barrel date – “37”
Any records showing when they changed the safety from the rear to the side on the 697?
RDB
Roger,
Your simple question is a bit complicated to answer but I will give it my best shot. The Winchester Model 69 was actually 2 separate overlapping firearms although Winchester initially called them both the “Model 69”. The Model 69 had a cock-on-closing bolt and a safety which was engaged by rotating the firing pin head. The Model 69 was upgraded in late 1938/early 1939 with a cock-on-opening bolt and a separate safety which was a lever alongside the receiver, this version was designated the 69A since most of the parts were not interchangeable with the original Model 69. Even though the Model 69 was discontinued in 1939 (after a slight overlap with the Model 69A production) all of the scoped versions (including the 697) continued to be assembled on the obsolete Model 69 cock-on-closing chassis until 1941 to use up the last of the old parts.
So, having said that, to answer your relatively straightforward question, the separate side safety was designed and drawn May 4th, 1938 for the 69A but that really has no bearing on your rifle as ALL of the 697’s were built as the earlier Model 69 and not a 69A. None of them had a Model 69A safety.
Since your rifle has a ’37 barrel date it was likely assembled 1937-1939. The 1940-1941 barrels were mostly undated for some reason and, in some cases, even had a rear sight dovetail on the receiver as it seems the obsolete 6902 receivers were exhausted first.
If you are coming to Reno this November I would love to see your rifle and chat with you. I don’t have a table but usually just wander around looking lost and hanging out with good people.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Thanks Jeff and Bert!
I will be happy to tote it up to the show.
I also have a 697A with no sights and a grooved receiver, would you care to examine it also?
R
Roger, are you saying that you have a 697 built on a 69A side safety barrel /receiver? One that Jeff says none were made, interesting. As we all know , never say never or always with Winchester.
PS after reading this over my should, my Granddaughter called it a Unicorn Winchester. No offense intended in any way.
Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles
“There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”
Teddy Roosevelt
Roger Baker said
Thanks Jeff and Bert!I will be happy to tote it up to the show.
I also have a 697A with no sights and a grooved receiver, would you care to examine it also?
R
I have only ever seen one other 697 “A” and it was not in person so I could not validate it. I would LOVE to see yours firsthand! Interestingly, the grooved receiver you mention on your 697A was not introduced by Winchester until mid-1954, well after the 697 was discontinued (by at least 13 years). There are no factory records of a 697 “A” but with Winchester anything was possible so I am looking forward to seeing yours.
I can bring a few 697’s as well if you want to do some side by side comparisons. I will bring a late (parts clean-up) 697 with a non-dovetailed barrel but a 6901 dovetailed receiver and a standard 697 of your 1937-1939 vintage which is a direct match of your rifle. I can also bring a 697 with the 2 3/4 scope to illustrate the differences in the base mounting positions if you are interested.
I am also coming “up” to the show from Southern NV, where are you coming from?
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Vince said
Roger, are you saying that you have a 697 built on a 69A side safety barrel /receiver? One that Jeff says none were made, interesting. As we all know , never say never or always with Winchester.
Hi Vince, we posted at the same time but yep, I think that is what he is saying. 
I am looking forward to chatting with Roger and getting a peek at his rifles.
Best Regards,
Jeff
PS: Roger, does your 697 “A” have a barrel date? What is the length of the barrel from the muzzle to the receiver?
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Hi All,
Muzzle to receiver 24 1/8″
Muzzle diameter: .637″
Standard 69A grooved receiver, no tapped holes, it appears unfired and never scoped.
No barrel date and only a small ‘P’ near the barrel alignment marks.
This gun was originally located in Ore. by a very knowledgeable 22 collector and then traded off.
I got the whole story from the original collector after it was auctioned by “Jack the Dog” to me.
The original purchaser (discoverer) will probably be at the show also.
Thanks for your interest and input.
R
Roger,
The barrel is the proper length and muzzle diameter. And, just to be clear, you are saying there is no front sight dovetail?
I am REALLY looking forward to seeing it as it is certainly a curious anomaly, especially with the late model grooved receiver. Because it is not D&T’d on the barrel and was not supplied with a scope it is not really a “697” but rather an un-catalogued 69A sightless “scope only” rifle. I can’t wait to see it.
Thanks for bringing it to Reno.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff and all,
I am really glad to be able to share my treasures to fellow Winchester addicts.
I will also bring a model 61 with a grooved top aluminum receiver that I have managed to acquire.
I have always been drawn to the unusual and ‘Winchester made that’ guns.
I have made some wrong purchases along the way, ( Model 1873 carbine/musket it’s Spanish & Model 53 in 218 Bee parts gun), but this is a learning tool.
I will tote along some of my error purchases too. Might help others to learn what to look for.
Best regards to all and THANKS to all for your help and consideration!
Roger
P.S. There are no dove tails at all on the 697A.
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