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Winchester 1886 1/2 Mag.
July 24, 2021
4:51 pm
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New to me is this wonderful Winchester 1886 Deluxe, Rifle in 38-56 Caliber!

IMG_2794.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2795.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2796.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2797.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2798.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2799.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2800.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2801.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2802.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2803.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2804.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2805.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2806.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2807.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2808.jpgImage Enlarger

I still Don’t understand why it keeps turning my pics of the letter!(aggravating)

So according to this 1963 Letter from New Haven. This Rifle left the warehouse, on 9/26/1892, and returned on 9/14/1914 for some work, not explained, and returned to the Customer!

I’m Thinking that’s when the Nickel Steel Barrel was added, along with the Set Trigger, as neither were described in the Letter!

Any thoughts? According to the Madis Book on page 590, it states any Rifles up until 1950 with a Nickle Steel Barrel could be considered Rare! Yep, there’s that word again! Rare!!!

Over time, and with the Help of the Modern day Computer, and more research, we’ve learned , and are learning a lot more.

Looking forward to your opinions and thoughts!

As you can see this Rifle looks nice, and has a wonderful bore, and a pleasing appearance for a 1/2 Mag. Rifle!

I do love the Configuration, as to what it represents!

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July 24, 2021
5:49 pm
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I do not know why they turn sideways, but when I post pictures I use the “preview” function to see what orientation they are going to post in, then then turn them myself before posting them.

 

Nice Rifles!

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July 24, 2021
6:00 pm
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Thanks Bert. I’ll try that!

July 24, 2021
6:09 pm
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Updated pics!IMG_2808-3.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2809-2.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2810-3.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2812-2.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2813-2.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2814-1-2.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2821-2.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2822-3.jpgImage EnlargerIMG_2823-2.jpgImage Enlarger

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July 24, 2021
7:50 pm
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I like the part in the “letter” that says the $2.00 fee was waived. Smile  Nice gun.

W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.

July 24, 2021
8:04 pm
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Thanks Henry,

I’m a little frustrated, as I tried to turn the pics, and for some reason, I wasn’t able to do it, as I had them straight from my phone.

Any ways, yeah, I like that also $2.00 fee waived, pretty neat.

So I’m thinking that when it got sent back to the Factory, that’s when the Nickel Steel Barrel was added and also, a 24 inch Barrel vs. the standard 26 inch Barrel.

Probably the set trigger also was added at that time, as far as the Lyman tang sight, we know that could have been added at any time, especially, a later Lyman tang sight.

The Bore cleaned up from, my buddy who put a Rig swab, down it yrs. ago, and it tends to attract the lint, Although that Rig does a great job of deterring rust, Corrosion, and what have you.Smile

July 24, 2021
8:36 pm
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Very nice, congrats. Gotta like a high-condition deluxe 1886, thanks for taking the time to share the pics. My pics get turned too but that may be an iThing. Wink

 

Mike

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July 24, 2021
8:49 pm
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Thanks Mike,

I was thinking about sending for a new Letter from Cody, but I don’t see what it will show me!

I was wondering if a current 1886 survey, would show any thing as far as configuration? Smile

July 24, 2021
9:32 pm
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Great gun you have there. I have always loved that configuration on 86’s.Had a similar gun years ago,as with all my guns i have sold wish I never sold it, same pistol grip button magazine, always loved the balance of the 86’s with pistol grip and short magazine. If anyone knows where serial number 4215 is, sure would like to see it. Same configuration as this gun but 45-90 and half round.

 Strange that the letter doesn’t mention upgraded wood, I would call that definitely X or possibly XX word, gorgeous..

July 24, 2021
9:50 pm
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Great find, Lovely gun  Bill

July 24, 2021
10:32 pm
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WPO said
Great gun you have there. I have always loved that configuration on 86’s.Had a similar gun years ago,as with all my guns i have sold wish I never sold it, same pistol grip button magazine, always loved the balance of the 86’s with pistol grip and short magazine. If anyone knows where serial number 4215 is, sure would like to see it. Same configuration as this gun but 45-90 and half round.

 Strange that the letter doesn’t mention upgraded wood, I would call that definitely X or possibly XX word, gorgeous..  

WPO,

Pretty sure the wood is original to the gun, as the Letter states, the checkered stock.

When I can I’d like to carefully remove the wood and check to see if there’s any xx’s on the tang, like the other Deluxe s   I’m familiar with seeing.

I do like the sunburst grain in the Butt stock, making me think possibly being a more select XXX Walnut!

426crown said
Great find, Lovely gun  Bill  

Thanks Bill,

The old Boy I got it from, is well into his 90’s, and has really become a good friend, just to go visit, and check on, and listen to old stories, while either Bonanza, or the Rifleman is currently playing re runs!Smile

I’ve truly been Blessed with the older Gentlemen that I have come to know over the years!

He still gets amazed at the Cell phone and the info that we can find on it!

Tony

July 24, 2021
10:55 pm
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Presumably, yes, the nickel steel barrel was applied in 1914 when the rifle was returned to the factory.  Proof marks started to be applied in 1905, and so these would not be contemporary to your 1892 production revolver.  A good sign is that the proof mark on the receiver and the barrel appear to be applied by an identical die, which is a positive indicator.  However, unfortunately, this is all conjecture, as R & R records no longer exist.  And, of course, there is always the very unlikely possibility that an identical (the same) die applied proof marks by someone well after the fact.  Of course, this is unlikely and there is little motive to do so.

I wouldn’t call a nickel steel barrel rare.  Uncommon is a better classification.

July 24, 2021
11:35 pm
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mrcvs said
Presumably, yes, the nickel steel barrel was applied in 1914 when the rifle was returned to the factory.  Proof marks started to be applied in 1905, and so these would not be contemporary to your 1892 production revolver.  A good sign is that the proof mark on the receiver and the barrel appear to be applied by an identical die, which is a positive indicator.  However, unfortunately, this is all conjecture, as R & R records no longer exist.  And, of course, there is always the very unlikely possibility that an identical (the same) die applied proof marks by someone well after the fact.  Of course, this is unlikely and there is little motive to do so.

I wouldn’t call a nickel steel barrel rare.  Uncommon is a better classification.  

mrcvs,

Good points!

Uncommon, yeah your probably right about that also!

The Rare comment sure does get tossed around a lot!

I think that, it’s one of those that we can say it is what it is, and I sure think it’s correct!

I see that Member John Madl is currently doing the Model 1886 Survey, maybe he can also weigh in!

Thanks, Tony

July 25, 2021
12:01 am
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George Madis predated the internet, and, therefore, ease of communication, by a great deal of time, and with much more information now available, a lot of what he claimed was rare was believed to be so…at that time.  More information equals more data and precise information.  A great example of this is the Winchester 1886 carbine.  Madis claimed they were 1 in 400 of total production.  I consider that to be rare.  It’s since been proven they are about 1 in 20 of original production which, depending on your particular definition, might not even be considered uncommon.

I know this because I researched this and discovered that my hypothesis that they numbered 1 in 20, based on unscientific research, is true.  It might actually now b proven to be 1 in 18 or 1 in 22, etc, but certainly not 1 in 400.  And I’m of maybe somewhat above average intelligence, but I was never considered a wiz kid!

July 25, 2021
12:36 am
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I would not classify a Nickel Steel barrel on a Model 1886 as even “uncommon”. There were many thousands of them made with Nickel Steel barrels, beginning in 1902.

The survey that Mark Yecha and I have in progress for the late production Model 1886’s (serial numbers 146000 – 160000) indicates that a very high percentage of them had Nickel Steel barrels. What is “uncommon” are those that were equipped with a Stainless Steel or Proof Steel barrel.

157530-Stainless-Barrel.jpgImage Enlarger157730-Stainless-Barrel.jpgImage Enlarger159360A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger159367A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger159543A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert

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July 25, 2021
12:42 am
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Bert H. said
I would not classify a Nickel Steel barrel on a Model 1886 as even “uncommon”. There were many thousands of them made with Nickel Steel barrels, beginning in 1902.

The survey that Mark Yecha and I have in progress for the late production Model 1886’s (serial numbers 146000 – 160000) indicates that a very high percentage of them had Nickel Steel barrels. What is “uncommon” are those that were equipped with a Stainless Steel or Proof Steel barrel.

157530-Stainless-Barrel.jpgImage Enlarger157730-Stainless-Barrel.jpgImage Enlarger159360A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger159367A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger159543A-Proof-Steel.jpgImage Enlarger

Bert  

Even the Earlier ones, like this one, Bert? I can understand, the later ones as they were so called more Common, with improved steel, and production methods, but I thought maybe being one of the Earlier mfg. model, that just possibly it could be considered, are little more uncommon.

Again, that’s where, as time goes on, were learning more and more about these Rifles!

Thanks Bert

July 25, 2021
12:52 am
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limestone304@aol.com said

Even the Earlier ones, like this one, Bert? I can understand, the later ones as they were so called more Common, with improved steel, and production methods, but I thought maybe being one of the Earlier mfg. model, that just possibly it could be considered, are little more uncommon.

I think what you mean and I meant that as far as total production, nickel steel barrels might be considered uncommon, but with regards to 1902 and after production they are not.  However, Bert has indicated to me that they are more common in later production than I believed, so even with regards to total production, they aren’t even what I would consider to be uncommon.

July 25, 2021
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The Nickel Steel alloy and ability to properly machine it was not perfected until about May, 1895. There should not be any early production Model 1886 rifles with a Nickel Steel barrel. That stated, it did not take many years after 1895 before Nickel Steel barrels began to appear on a regular basis, and beginning in 1902, they were prolifically used. The Model 1886 ELW rifles (all calibers) were predominantly manufactured with Nickel Steel barrels, as were almost 100% of the 33 WCF rifles.

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July 25, 2021
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mrcvs said

limestone304@aol.com said
Even the Earlier ones, like this one, Bert? I can understand, the later ones as they were so called more Common, with improved steel, and production methods, but I thought maybe being one of the Earlier mfg. model, that just possibly it could be considered, are little more uncommon.

I think what you mean and I meant that as far as total production, nickel steel barrels might be considered uncommon, but with regards to 1902 and after production they are not.  However, Bert has indicated to me that they are more common in later production than I believed, so even with regards to total production, they aren’t even what I would consider to be uncommon.  

Gotchya!

That does make sense!

I was always curious about this Rifle, when he would bring it out, and we would admire it, and rub it down with the Rig Rag, and look at the old Letter, that he got when he bought it from the older gentleman, at a near by Gun Show. He told me that the name on the Letter is who he purchased it from yrs. ago.

Thanks for the Clarifications guys!Smile

July 25, 2021
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limestone304@aol.com said

WPO,

Pretty sure the wood is original to the gun, as the Letter states, the checkered stock.

When I can I’d like to carefully remove the wood and check to see if there’s any xx’s on the tang, like the other Deluxe s   I’m familiar with seeing.

I do like the sunburst grain in the Butt stock, making me think possibly being a more select XXX Walnut!

426crown said
Great find, Lovely gun  Bill  

Thanks Bill,

The old Boy I got it from, is well into his 90’s, and has really become a good friend, just to go visit, and check on, and listen to old stories, while either Bonanza, or the Rifleman is currently playing re runs!Smile

I’ve truly been Blessed with the older Gentlemen that I have come to know over the years!

He still gets amazed at the Cell phone and the info that we can find on it!

Tony  

Pls, by now mention was I intuiting the wood  was not original, in my opinion, absolutely original..Just making comment that the wood is def x or xx or maybe,as your stated xxx, wood. Great gun and I it were mine, I would shoot it. I have always shot all of my guns, even old 44rf guns I shot them…:)

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