W.R.A. & Co. 12 volume catalogue set|What's New!|Forum|Winchester Collector

 Joel, Wise buy, you will enjoy and find yourself referring to source information for years to come. No better source than the catalog the manufacturer printed. My set is in a bookcase under the TV, I find myself getting a book out during a commercial to answer a question that strangely popped into my head. T/R

Joel Goodrich said
I’m excited to have found the 12 volume W.R.A. & Co. catalogue set!

I should have plenty of reading material for a while. 

Anyone else have experiece with this set?
Are there any known “holes” or gaps in the material covered from 1865-1918?  

A while back I made a list of Winchester Catalogues as compiled from a couple old articles on the topic in The Collector. I then noted which ones weren’t in the 12 Volume Set.

The catalogs not included were as follows:

1863, 1867, 1868, 1869, 1876, 1877, 3-1-1878 (Replica Noted), 5-1-1878 (I have a Replica), 5-1-1879, 3-1-1881, 6-1-1882, 5-1888, 2-1889, 6-1889, 6-1890, 7-1890, 3-1891 (Replica Noted), 8-1891, 1-1892, 10-1892, 12-1892, 10-1893, 10-1897 (This is the Highly Finished Arms Catalog-Replicas Made), 3-1899, 1-1900, 2-1900, 6-1904, 7-1904.

Catalogs noted in the Collector that are post 1918 were also noted: 9-15-1919, 1920, 3-15-1921, 1923, 1924, 1925, 1927  

Also not included in the 12 Volume set are the various Spanish & Chinese versions of the catalogs. Also “Salesman’s Catalogs” aren’t in there, don’t know if there was much of a difference with them, other than leather binding and pages for the salesman to make notes.  There are also quote unquote 1st & 2nd Issues for catalogs of the same year i.e. the 1875 Catalog. Other things like a “Revised Ammo Price List” and other Supplements will be found in original copies of the catalogs that aren’t in the 12 Volume Set. The 12 Volume Set also apparently may have re-sized various catalog to fit into the Volume Set, as the originals did vary in size in certain years. 

My understanding is that also the 12 Volume set was made by reproducing catalogs that were housed in the Winchester Library at the Winchester Museum from New Haven. Some of the catalogs have merely penciled in dates, and I believe some of these penciled dates are incorrect. That is based on when you actually read various details in the said catalog, something maybe off. For example there is a catalog penciled with a date of Nov. 1887, and yet on page 76 the image of the 1888 Tool shown has the Patent date of Jan. 24, 1888. I would think it shouldn’t have that patent date on the image. Then if you look at the next dated catalog being 5-1888 (which is not in the set), I think possibly this maybe the actual date of the catalog. But I don’t have an original copy of either of these date catalogs to verify this. There are also a couple of other examples I’ve found, but can’t think of them right now. 

These are a great resource, and I don’t see myself ever getting rid of my set. And by the way if anyone has any of these missing catalogs, I’d love to talk with them in regarding to the section of the catalogs that mention the reloading tools. Only one so far I’ve been sent is the March 1891 catalog.

Hope this answers / helps your questions.

Sincerely,

Maverick

 Joel, A couple of the many things I found helpful was the listing of cartridge velocity. Having a chart of black powder velocity for a specific cartridge in a specific year made loading smokeless for my old guns accurate. Also if you have a sight or feature originality question just look at the pictures in the catalog for the years close to your gun. Even though the dates have small errors and some years are missing it’s a great quick guide to period correct. T/R

Chuck said
Brady, do you know the number of catalogs that are in the 12 Volume set?  I know you can get reproductions at http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/historic-winchester-arms.php  

I’ll have to check my list when I get home to see which numbers aren’t included. I can tell the 1st known Numbered Catalog is #52 dated April 1894, per the Collector articles. I’d like to double check this, as I think I’ve seen a #50, but could be just my memory is off.

I also don’t recall which catalogs that Cornell sells Repos off that aren’t in the 12 Volume Set. I don’t think its very many at all. Will also add, that sometimes Cornell’s copies aren’t always the best, but better than nothing at all.

I’ll try to post more this evening when I get home.

Sincerely,

Maverick

Maverick said

For your viewing pleasure a consolidated list of Winchester Catalogs as compiled by Ron Stadt from articles in the collector. This listed I compiled from a couple of articles Mr. Stadt wrote for the collector. The dates in Bold are not in the 12 Volume Set. Let me know if there are any errors.

Ron also discussed in the 1985 & 1986 Collector magazines several other such catalogs produced by Winchester and later Winchester-Western that are of interest. Such as the Blue Covered Catalogs, Pocket Catalogs, World Standard Guns & Ammunition Catalogs, Retail Price List of Winchester Rifles & Shotguns, Catalog of Retail Price List of Winchester Arms & Accessories, Jobber Condensed Price List, Firearms Distributor Price Lists, Winchester & Western Sporting Arms & Ammunition, Gun Salesman’s Handbooks, Sales Promotion Materials, Component Parts, Miscellaneous Catalogs & Such, Western Ammo Price List, Western Jobbers Prices, Western Distributor Ammo Price List, Western Wholesale-Retail Price List, Western Pocket Catalogs, Western Bound Catalogs, Western Handbooks, Western Recommended Jobber’s Selling Price to the Dealer, and Winchester-Western Ball Powder Loading Data.

It was mentioned such information would make for a nice book on the topic. I don’t know how far this ever got. But It would somewhat nice.

I was wrong earlier the lowest numbered original catalog I’ve seen is #57.

Sincerely,

Maverick  

Thanks Maverick.  That is way more than I expected.  I will file this list away.  But what I really wanted was how many catalogs are already in the 12 Volume set.  This gives me an idea what I would be paying per catalog  if I were to buy them one at a time.

Maverick said

Chuck said

But what I really wanted was how many catalogs are already in the 12 Volume set.  This gives me an idea what I would be paying per catalog  if I were to buy them one at a time.  

Well the simple answer to the catalogs that are ALREADY  in the 12 Volume set. Are the dates not in Bold prior to 1918. Roughly as I don’t think I put in Bold some of the 2nd Issues and French, Spanish, and other foreign language editions that are not in the 12 Volume set. Which I don’t know if they’d be much use anyway, especially the foreign language ones. Are you fluent in more than English? The few 2nd editions might would have some different information in them. For instance I’d like see an Original 1875 1st and 2nd editions, as I’m not currently certain which edition is in the 12 Volume Set. I also believe that there maybe a significant difference between the two editions.

I’d have to thumb through each Volume and Count to double check. But roughly from the list I have compiled and made notes on, there are 50+ Catalogs in the 12 Volume Set. With Cornell charging $16 or so a pop, that is close to a total of $800. So get a 12 Volume Set will likely save you some money. I think I paid $250 for mine a while back. I also don’t think Cornell has all the Catalogs that are in the 12 Volume Set. From my experience, the 12 Volume Set has way better Print Quality to them. 

Sincerely,

Maverick  

Maverick, I went ahead and bought the set that Jim was listing.  I found another set that may have ended up a little cheaper but James is a fellow member and I can get his set right away.  I have a few of the reprints and a friend of mine gave me 4 more today.  Need to dig them out and see what I have.  One thing that I have observed is that the reprints are not all marked the same and at least one of them is not marked as a reprint anywhere.  I have some real catalogs and one way to tell a real one from the reprints is the real ones are stapled together.   Open the cover and you will see staples.

Chuck said
Maverick I went through your list (R. Stadt) and the 12 Volume set. I am going to order the 1876 from Cornell.  On Cornell’s website they say 6/1887 is #43 and the 11/1887 is #44?  

Don’t waste your money on Cornell’s 1876 Catalog, as I don’t know who sent it to him stating it was the 1876 catalog. Either way I had bought a copy from them a while back, and it is exactly the same as the 1875 catalog in the 12 Volume Set. In my opinion if it was a true 1876 Catalog, it shouldn’t be exactly the same as the 1875 catalog as in the 12 Volume set. Also I would think the 1876 would show the 1875 Reloading Tool in it and not the 1874 Tool, as shown in the 1875 Catalog. My understanding it there are Two editions of the 1875 Catalog and that the 1st Edition is in the 12 volume set. But I don’t have a way of proving that, as I don’t own an original copy of both the 1st & 2nd Editions of the 1875 Catalog. And/or an original copy of the 1876 Catalog.

Chuck said
On Cornell’s website they say 6/1887 is #43 and the 11/1887 is #44?  

I’ll have to check into this one as, I’m not sure whether or not that maybe correct. But as noted above, there are errors out there on this information. In fact the 12 Volume Set, I believe some of those dates maybe off, as they were dated in pencil as to what the date “maybe”. 

Sincerely,

Maverick