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November 7, 2015
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Quite honestly I’m still trying to figure it what I have. Stumbled onto an early 1885 CF Musket at the Cody show. Campbell’s 1st Edition mentions it in passing while focusing on the Winder musket. All I can say for sure is my Winder has a (really!) big brother now and it looks like he’s going to be fun! It was interesting to compare it to Jim Curlovic’s Hotchkiss musket at the show. Bore looks good, this old warhorse may see some Holy Black and 20-1 lead cast bullets in the near future. Hopefully John will be a bit more helpful in his second edition but it’s late.
Mike
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Mike,
I checked my survey records, and you Musket is one of (483) that were manufactured, and one of (347) made in 45-70. Send me the serial number and I will dig up some additional information for you.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Bert. SN is 3266. Looking forward to learning more about this musket.
Mike
Mike:
That is a great musket! I almost bought it myself even though I don’t do single shots because it is so appealing, and I think the price was quite reasonable………
Rick
WACA Life Benefactor Member
NRA Life Member
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Rick. I’m tolerant of SS’s so to speak and the intrigue factor combined with the reasonable price made it an easy decision. Plus it’s chambered in a cartridge I am very familiar with so it won’t be a safe queen.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Thanks, Bert. SN is 3266. Looking forward to learning more about this musket.Mike
Your Musket was shipped on May 28th, 1887 with (29) other identical Muskets to order number 17733. It originally had a Saber bayonet with it. Based on the size of the order, it undoubtedly was ordered and purchased by a State Guard/Militia unit., unfortunately there is no information available to confirm who purchased them. In my research survey I have documented that Winchester manufactured (478) center fire Muskets, and of that number (347) were in 45-70.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Mike,
That is a very cool musket, if the hole in the end of the barrel wasn’t so big I would have bought it – I can get two .22 bullets side by side in that bore!
It was great seeing you at the show and glad you brought home a new toy.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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Very interesting, Bert. The information about being part of a 30 gun order brought to mind a few passages about military trials in my modest library but I’ve checked those sources tonight; no joy. I took another look at the musket after reading your post expecting to see a rack number that I missed earlier. No joy there either. I suspect the mindset that repeating rifles encourage wasting ammunition likely maintained a firm footing in the militia/guard units, your theory makes sense to me. The single band configuration is interesting but I’ve read enough about the one vs. two band debate to make my head hurt. Trigger is impressively light and crisp, I suspect the unit was one which took marksmanship seriously.
Thanks, Jeff. That musket is proving to be very interesting. To be quite honest I am very fond of the rifle you bought but the other .22 Bert brought is very special as well. I’m surprised Gary didn’t take that one home. You did well adding that little gem to your collection. I suggested Bert bring some eye candy, he did one hell of a job! Only problem is I liked all of them. It was great visiting and consulting with you at Cody, Jeff, thanks for sharing your expertise. I am pretty pleased with both new toys and still have a few guns to take to upcoming shows. It’s quite possible Bert and I will be bringing mainly display guns next year. I once took a dozen assorted “Display Only” Winchester .22’s to a TGCA show, brought back lots of memories for quite a few members and guests.
Mike
TXGunNut said
Thanks, Jeff. To be quite honest I am very fond of the rifle you bought but the other .22 Bert brought is very special as well. I’m surprised Gary didn’t take that one home. You did well adding that little gem to your collection. I suggested Bert bring some eye candy, he did one hell of a job! Only problem is I liked all of them. It was great visiting and consulting with you at Cody, Jeff, thanks for sharing your expertise. I am pretty pleased with both new toys and still have a few guns to take to upcoming shows. It’s quite possible Bert and I will be bringing mainly display guns next year. I once took a dozen assorted “Display Only” Winchester .22’s to a TGCA show, brought back lots of memories for quite a few members and guests.
I am even MORE fond of it than you, I still can’t believe Bert let me take it home! For those that did not get a chance to see it, here is my favorite acquisition at Cody this year;
One of only two rifles in this configuration, 24″ #3 barrel, take-down highwall chambered in .22 Short. Yup, you read all that correctly and it letters as such.
It is a VERY unique addition to my Winchester .22 collection – thanks Bert!. The pictures do not do it justice as it is all oiled up to go in the safe (I had to wipe everyone’s fingerprints and Cody drool off of it).
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
Jeff,
I felt that you were long past due in adding a “true” Winchester Single Shot .22 caliber rifle to your collection. I know that it is in a good home, and if I miss it too terribly, I know where I can hunt it down. I ordered up a new CFM factory letter for it in your name, so watch your mailbox.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Jeff,I felt that you were long past due in adding a “true” Winchester Single Shot .22 caliber rifle to your collection. I know that it is in a good home, and if I miss it too terribly, I know where I can hunt it down. I ordered up a new CFM factory letter for it in your name, so watch your mailbox.
Bert
That is VERY kind of you, I am in your debt and agree, it shames most of the other Winchester .22’s in my safe.
Thanks again for letting me have it, and yes, it is always yours again if you miss it too much.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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Went to the range today (barely) before temps hit triple digits and abused my shoulder a bit with some 45-70 loads I had on the shelf. The Hotchkiss sight isn’t well suited to 50 yard aiming and it seems this musket isn’t suitable for placing hits on paper at 100 yards, at least with the load I selected. I’m thinking the bore may be consistent with a surplus Guard/Militia armory musket. It looks OK but so far it doesn’t look very promising as a “shooter”. Not sure my shoulder needs a 45-70 shooter, to be perfectly honest!
Mike
Went to the range today (barely) before temps hit triple digits and abused my shoulder a bit with some 45-70 loads I had on the shelf. TXGunNut said
Mike
A PAST shoulder harness would go a long way toward taming the .45-70, but to make shooting inside a furnace bearable, I don’t know what to recommend; I generally “retreat” when it hits about 80.
November 7, 2015
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It was 80 at dawn. I use the PAST Magnum recoil pad. It’s really not that bad, I actually enjoy “thumpers” when they shoot well. I think I may load up some BP loads for this musket’s last (for me) range trip. OTOH I have a few more loads on the shelf. As long as I stay away from those “M-word” 1895 loads I’ll be OK.
Mike
Michael; I don’t know if You’re lookin’ but I have a spare Winchester saber bayonet and scabbord
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
November 7, 2015
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Maybe, Harry. I think the bayonet mount has been altered, will post a pic if my perusal of Campbell’s book isn’t helpful. Cleaning rod is also MIA.
Mike
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