Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Hello, I’m interested in finding out any information on my Model 53 25-20. Serial# 6785. I dont know how to post pics. It was originally my grandfather’s, passed to my dad, and then to me. I’m not sure if it’s the take down variation. The magazine tube is removable. It appears to be all original, except for some checkering on both sides of the stock, right behind the receiver. I have taken it to the range a couple times and it is in full working order. The only issue I’ve had is cycling cartridges. If I don’t run the lever quickly, it jams. Thanks.
Hello Aaron,
If the magazine tube is readily removable, it is a Take Down rifle. The serial number identifies it as a 1926 production rifle. You can send pictures of it to me at [email protected]
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thanks for the response. I’m not planning on selling it but I am curious as to the value. I would guess it to be in good condition. I’ll try to send pics.
The Polishing room records indicate your rifle was serialized on March 15, 1926. I would sure appreciate some photos. I am doing a long-term survey of surviving Model 53’s. If you post a photo, or email me one at [email protected] I can tell you if it is a takedown or not. I’m also very interesting in the checkering, to see if it is original or not. I can tell you more about your rifle once I see a photo or two.
I have one in 44 and one in 32. I am waiting for the snow to go away so I can shoot them. Yep, they are sweeeeet little rifles, and very accurate. Big Larry
If anyone seeing this thread has one or more Model 53’s, and has not contacted me with the data on their rifles for the Model 53 survey, I would be very grateful if you would shoot me an email at [email protected]
I am only a few rifles away from the 4% milestone, having crossed the 600-rifle milestone only a few weeks ago.
win38-55 said
If anyone seeing this thread has one or more Model 53’s, and has not contacted me with the data on their rifles for the Model 53 survey, I would be very grateful if you would shoot me an email at [email protected]I am only a few rifles away from the 4% milestone, having crossed the 600-rifle milestone only a few weeks ago.
I am jealous. I don’t think I will live long enough to get 4% of the 1892 rifles. though I am getting pretty darn close to 1%!!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Michael,
What total Model 1892/92 production number are you using to calculate from? Did you deduct for the 15,000 Model 53 rifles, and the 7,600 Model 65 rifles?
In my largest survey, the Model 1894/94/55/64, I now have 17,239 total serial numbers recorded, and that is only 0.763% of the total. Even though that may seem to be an insignificant number, it has revealed many secrets and production statistics.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
Offline
I’m curious about what you two prolific surveyors feel is the percentage of surviving 92’s and 94’s. Since both models are workhorses and were often not terribly expensive I suspect it’s under 50% but I figure y’all have a better idea.
Bert H. said
Michael,
What total Model 1892/92 production number are you using to calculate from? Did you deduct for the 15,000 Model 53 rifles, and the 7,600 Model 65 rifles?
In my largest survey, the Model 1894/94/55/64, I now have 17,239 total serial numbers recorded, and that is only 0.763% of the total. Even though that may seem to be an insignificant number, it has revealed many secrets and production statistics.
Bert
Hello Bert,
The last SN in the 1892/92/53/65 series I am using is 1007608. If I subtract the 15,000 Model 53’s and 7600 Model 65 rifles that leaves approximately 985,000 Model 1892/92 rifles. And I presently have 9,553 individual rifles entered which leaves me around 250 rifles short of the 1% mark. These 9553 rifles have born out a tremendous amount of information regarding the nuances of production and popularity of various configurations and calibers. I have worked on some statistical analysis but have purposefully not wanted to present it since I obviously am not sure of its ultimate accuracy. These are certainly “statistics of the surveyed population” but do they REALLY reflect what was actually built but so far not included in my population of data. And we all know that once something is put out there it would be extremely difficult to “get it back” and present alternate numbers. I would love to be able to compress all 380,000 entries of the 1892 ledger data into a spreadsheet and then compare the statistics derived from that data to the survey rifles statistics derived from my work. Then we would have a measure of accuracy for the work we do.
Slow and steady will get me to the finish line.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
TXGunNut said
I’m curious about what you two prolific surveyors feel is the percentage of surviving 92’s and 94’s. Since both models are workhorses and were often not terribly expensive I suspect it’s under 50% but I figure y’all have a better idea.
Good morning,
I answered a similar question several years ago but have no idea where that answer is. In my spread sheet of rifles I have a “place card holder” entry at every 10,000 serial numbers. So there is a colored blank cell at 10,000, 20,000 30,000 etc. I did this expressly to be able to more easily analyze how many rifles was I finding in each increment. It would logical to expect that the number of older rifles would not “survive” as compared to those produced 30 or so years later. I took a quick look, in an effort to answer this question, at some of the numbers. Of the first 10,000 rifles I have 243 sampled. From 10,000 to 20,000 I have another 183. I then jumped forward to the 930,000 940,000, 950,000 and 960,000 range of data. The Model 53 began to be numbered in the 92 sequence around SN 962,262 so I can not use data later than that as the “missing 92 rifles” were built as 53’s and may survive but are not captured in my data. I would need a combined 92 and 53 serial number data set. In the range from 960,000 to 950,000 I have 117 rifles, 950,000 to 940,000 I have 139 rifles, and from 940,000 to 930,000 I have 184 rifles surveyed. So, if you just look at these bare numbers I tend to have more of the very early rifles (especially the first 10,000 numbers) than the newer ones. I need to sit and work this for the entire range of data and see if the sampled rate, possibly interpreted as “survival” rate, is more or less constant throughout my data. It has been a few years since I did this.
But all of this number crunching and the implications derived from it does not really answer your question. My feeling is that A LOT of these guns are still out there. Way more than 50% of them. While they may appear to have “not been terribly expensive” do keep in mind that people were working for a much lower wage and the cost of a rifle may represent several months or more of set aside money to afford one. I doubt they were often treated as throw away, easily replace items.
I am fortunate to have a contact in Australia who send me emails with 1892 rifles he finds for sale there. Many of these guns are used to death but what strikes me is that they are still there being shot or repaired and bought and sold. I will admit may of them look like they should be on the scrap pile but they are not. I think this points to the probability that a large percentage of the original production still exists. I can’t tell you how many times I get an email stating “we never knew dad had this gun.” My gut feeling says probably 90% of the guns produced are still kicking around.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I completely agree Michael… I believe that at least 85% (and more than likely it is actually a slightly higher number) of the Model 1894/94s survive today, with the vast majority of them sitting in attics, closets, and gun cabinets all over the entire globe. The one thing that I have learned, is that there are a large number of Winchesters scattered all over the entire world, and just because they are not in ready view or access to the U.S. collector market does not mean they do not exist. Like Michael, I have several contacts in Australia, and in several other countries around the globe. It is my belief that almost as many Winchesters made their way both north & south of our borders, to Europe, and to Australia & New Zealand as we have within our own borders. In my 35 year search for Model 1885 Single Shot rifles, I have found them in more than 50 different countries, with the largest number found in Australia.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 26, 2011
Offline
Fellows,
Very interesting views on the “survival rate”. If you haven’t heard it lately, I think I speak for all of us when I say Thank You Michael P. and “Highwall” Hartman, we appreciate all your efforts in the research you both do. My measly short rifle survey doesn’t hold a candle to yours.
Keep up the good work.
~Gary~
November 7, 2015
Offline
I didn’t mean to imply that the 92’s and 94’s were inexpensive, just probably more affordable than 86’s, 53’s and 64’s. My theory was that the “fancier” guns may have received better treatment and stayed in the same careful hands for longer than less expensive guns, much like the fancier grade guns seem to survive in better condition than plainer ones. One fear I have is that many fine examples are being inherited by a generation that knows and cares little about the history these guns represent and they may be improperly stored, handled or maintained.
Win38-55’s survey rate of 4% is very impressive and it made me wonder if a long-term survey rate had any correlation to a survival rate.
Actually, Michael, your numbers are quite interesting and do help answer my question. Or more accurately, they dispute some assumptions I had. I’m now wondering if a survey block of 10K could be skewed by a large order of rifles exported to a purchaser that didn’t have a long-term attitude towards them and as a consequence few survived. I know a missionary who spends his time in Peru, he has no trouble acquiring a 92 to tinker with in his spare time but it is generally very well used. I think one of his 92’s was pieced together from two or more guns.
Most of the rifles I’ve been purchasing were recently purchased from estates. Your high survival predictions suggest that many more are sitting around waiting to enter the market. A few I’ve stumbled across likely haven’t seen the light of day in decades, or possibly my lifetime. Some will undoubtedly be stashed away until after we’re gone. The Winchester I replenished my freezer with this past season was likely putting meat on someone’s table when my grandfather was still in diapers.
I have a few contacts in Australia as well. One is a CAS competitor and is very fond of 92’s (and just about every other levergun he can get his hands on). It’s apparently not unusual to see several original 92’s in a match and if I’m figuring my exchange rate correctly they are quite reasonable to acquire. It’s also pretty apparent that many of the old Winchesters encountered Down Under haven’t had an easy life but they are generally carefully repaired and returned to service when they break instead of being scrapped out.
pdog72 said
Fellows,Very interesting views on the “survival rate”. If you haven’t heard it lately, I think I speak for all of us when I say Thank You Michael P. and “Highwall” Hartman, we appreciate all your efforts in the research you both do. My measly short rifle survey doesn’t hold a candle to yours.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks Gary. It is nice to hear that others appreciate the effort and information that comes from it. It does help justify the amount of time that goes into collecting all of this data.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
TX GunNut,
If you will pass on to your Peruvian and Australian this link to the survey I would greatly appreciate any input they would be willing to make. And do let me know if there are any “leftovers” from the estates you are shopping.
Thanks so much
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 7, 2015
Offline
I’ll see what I can do. The Peruvian contact has been very quiet lately but that’s normal for him. I think my Australian contact would have a good time here.
I haven’t given you the data on my 92’s; do you have 199497 and 799326? I traded off 401549 but it’s probably listed on the Cabela’s site.
Come to think of it I owe Bert a few numbers as well.
Mike
TXGunNut said
I’ll see what I can do. The Peruvian contact has been very quiet lately but that’s normal for him. I think my Australian contact would have a good time here.I haven’t given you the data on my 92’s; do you have 199497 and 799326? I traded off 401549 but it’s probably listed on the Cabela’s site.
Come to think of it I owe Bert a few numbers as well.
Mike
Hello Mike,
I have nothing on 199497. The other two are in my data.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 7, 2015
Offline
199497 is a 32WCF standard rifle, octagon barrel. Rifle is in WA now, due back someday soon. You probably saw 799326 @ Cody last year.
My Australian friend is mostly shooting replicas these days, not much interested in collecting or collectors but I’ll work on him a bit. My friend the missionary visited here last night, let me know if he doesn’t contact you in a few days. He fired his 1904 vintage 44 sometime last month, pretty sure it’s the one he’s had for years.
1 Guest(s)
