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I just received this Box in the mail from Wards Auctions. Pretty close to mint box with the original fired brass. What surprised me the most is that the brass is the unstamped version with no caliber markings!
A companion to my not yet paid off Deluxe 76! 
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I also bought some items from the recent Ward’s Auctions, and one of the items included some old cartridges.
I was informed that they could not ship this item to me directly because of the new California law, and that they would have to ship it to a local FFL shop where I could pick it up from.
I found a local FFL dealer who agreed to accept this item shipment for me, but they wanted $25 for this honor. This is twice as much as I paid for the item.
Ward’s said that they will hold the item for me on consignment and put it in their next auction.
They had said the same thing to me but i had to inform him that the brass was not considered ammunition because there was no primer, powder, or projectile. This new law is one of the most idiotic laws to come out of Scat-ramento……I dont even think any CA FFL has been given any instruction on how this ammo transfer is supposed to work…….
Components aren’t restricted in any way, but you’re right there has been a lot of confusion around the issue (I live in Los Angeles) that I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt is a combination of intentional and incompetence.
Unfortunately CA also makes it difficult for out of state vendors to get and understand the laws here so many opt out completely.
Anyone out there in Free America need an audio/video post production engineer? If I could find work I’d be out in a heartbeat. It’s not gonna get any better.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
That appears to be an earlier second issue cartridge box. Condition is nice and crisp. I’m selling off my collection of early boxed Winchester and UMC ammo and sold a full box just like this one. I found that only FED X and UPS will ship boxed ammo. UPS works better for me, so I’ve been using that carrier for shipping my ammo. So far, no problems.
I forgot to mention that the new California ammo restriction law also apparently includes Black Powder obsolete related “ammo”.
I had to cancel an order of some pre-packaged 44 caliber ball & powder paper “cartridges” for a percussion revolver from Buffalo Arms because they also said that they would have to ship them to an FFL shop.
I thought that ammo for antique firearms and/or Black Powder related ammo products would have been exempt from the new CA ammo law. I guess not.
I recently went through all of this too. Fortunately I have a good relationship with a local FFL dealer/shop. They will accept my ammo for no charge. I had to have another WACA member buy the ammo for me and then ship it to the FFL. Gunbroker will only ship to the registered address. The new law gives no distinction for the age of the ammo even if it is antique and obsolete.
there isn’t even a system yet for FFL’s to record or transfer any ammo……,The state of CA can’t check every parcel that comes through the state.. Its a bogus law that can’t be enforced. Just another way the liberal mindset of CA has ruined gun collecting and the state…..
Rant Over…..
Manuel said
I just received this Box in the mail from Wards Auctions. Pretty close to mint box with the original fired brass. What surprised me the most is that the brass is the unstamped version with no caliber markings!
A companion to my not yet paid off Deluxe 76!
Prior to the year 1885 all brass cartridges produced by Winchester have no head-stamp. Which is truly amazing to me. Especially since as early as 1875 Winchester produced and sold 32 different central-fire cartridges and 28 different rim-fire cartridges, and of those 32 different center-fire cartridges, only the 44w.c.f. was the one and only one of their cartridges, the rest were for there competition companies calibers. With the capability of producing 1 Million Military cartridges and 1/2 million in sporting & pistol cartridges a DAY! And that was only merely in the year 1875.
The 45-60 was invented in 1879. So that is 6 years of production from 1879-1885 without a head-stamp. Imagine how many cartridges were produced let alone in that time-frame.
It is a very nice box in great condition. Have you looked in Giles & Shuey’s book to see what time-frame they have for it?
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Looks like a second version. The 45 call out on the front of the box is now block letters and caliber not calibre. Should not have head stamp on picture of the cartridge (I can’t tell from your picture).
Maverick
i have Giles & Shuey’s book and it placed it mid 1880’s. I’d love to find some unfired, unstamped 45-60 to put in the box. I guess i could always just re-load the original cartridges?( can brass that old be reloaded? Sorry, complete novice in regards to reloading) I would have to find orginal correct #2 primers…….But in the mean time i have put original, although head stamped cartridges in the box.
cwachter – yea, that was a bad picture but the cartridges are not stamped.
Manny,
You would run the risk of cracking/splitting the brass if you try reloading it without first annealing it. Brass that old will have become brittle with age. I would start your quest to find original unfired cartridges.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
Manny,
You would run the risk of cracking/splitting the brass if you try reloading it without first annealing it. Brass that old will have become brittle with age. I would start your quest to find original unfired cartridges.
Bert
Thanks for the advice Bert!
Let the quest to discover unfired original unstamped 45-60 rounds begin………..Anyone here have any they would like to get rid of??
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