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1886 in 45-90
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Troutdale, OR
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January 29, 2023 - 10:16 pm
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Seller had it sold to someone else, but that buyer backed out at the last minute.  So it came home with me yesterday!

Don

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January 29, 2023 - 10:51 pm
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Wow Don,

That’s a beautiful 1886. It doesn’t look like it was used very much.
Glad you were able to buy it.

Al

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January 29, 2023 - 10:55 pm
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Wow, love the color in that wood! Very good weekend for acquisitions. Sell anything?

 

Mike

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Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
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January 29, 2023 - 11:07 pm
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TXGunNut said
Wow, love the color in that wood! Very good weekend for acquisitions. Sell anything?

 

Mike

  

Thanks Mike.  I had do do some fancy trading plus some cash for this one.  I had a mediocre 1892 and 3 mediocre 1894’s I let go in the deal. Made a little room in the safe though too.

Don

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January 29, 2023 - 11:19 pm
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deerhunter said

TXGunNut said

Wow, love the color in that wood! Very good weekend for acquisitions. Sell anything?

 

Mike

  

Thanks Mike.  I had do do some fancy trading plus some cash for this one.  I had a mediocre 1892 and 3 mediocre 1894’s I let go in the deal. Made a little room in the safe though too.

Don  

Well, that’s a good deal.  I would trade mediocre any day to acquire outstanding!

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January 29, 2023 - 11:20 pm
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Nothing wrong with getting rid of 4 rifles you don’t want any more for one you really do. Great job, that’s quite an 86………. a spectacular standard with all the right feature’s collectors want. What a weekend for you!

                                                                               ~Gary~

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January 30, 2023 - 12:01 am
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pdog72 said
Nothing wrong with getting rid of 4 rifles you don’t want any more for one you really do. Great job, that’s quite an 86………. a spectacular standard with all the right feature’s collectors want. What a weekend for you!

  

Thanks Gary. In addition to this 1886, I also picked up an 1894 deluxe in 30 WCF with a 22-inch extra light round barrel, 3/4 magazine, takedown, and crescent butt from the same guy.  It’s about a 90%+ condition gun. I’ll post pictures and info for your survey in the next day or two. Been a crazy and expensive weekend, but a hell of a lot of fun!

Don

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January 30, 2023 - 12:12 am
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Very nice!  Great condition, chambering, the whole package.

I am looking forward to the photos of the ’94 you picked up.

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January 30, 2023 - 2:34 am
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first let me say congratulations. next let me say I mean no offence and of course opinions vary greatly. personally  I would want to hold this one in my hands to be sure … BUT…. I have some questions, mainly the pitting and wear on tip of hammer an worn knurling but where thumb rides to caulk hammer is near perfect colors ?.  also the end cap, belly and top tang i have questions.  my following comments only come in kindness and in the event someone looks at this in person and  im right then you can at least hopefully do something.  respectfully

Jeremy Scott.

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January 30, 2023 - 3:20 am
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Jeremy Scott. said
first let me say congratulations. next let me say I mean no offence and of course opinions vary greatly. personally  I would want to hold this one in my hands to be sure … BUT…. I have some questions, mainly the pitting and wear on tip of hammer an worn knurling but where thumb rides to caulk hammer is near perfect colors ?.  also the end cap, belly and top tang i have questions.  my following comments only come in kindness and in the event someone looks at this in person and  im right then you can at least hopefully do something.  respectfully

  

Hi Jeremy,

Thank you for voicing your concerns.  I definitely do not want to be stuck with a refinished / restored gun.  To me, the case- coloring looked good with the right amount of color variations as opposed to Turnbull-type restorations that have too much blues and not enough reds,etc. Can you (or anyone else on this forum) please elaborate with any issues that you see?  I can take more photos and post them on here if needed.

Thanks,

Don

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January 30, 2023 - 5:27 am
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Hi Jeremy,
I am very concerned that this 1886 may have been restored now. Under closer inspection, in addition to what you already pointed out, there is no wear on the hammer face either, the magazine band dovetail is loose, and I can see really fine scratches like steel wool marks to artificially wear the top tang, lower tang and forearm cap. The bore is overall pretty nice for a black powder bore, but with a slight roughness which, to me contradicts the lack of wear on the hammer face. I can also see a little bit of pitting on the lower tang around the screw with case-coloring over the top of it. I took a series of additional photos of these areas of concern. I’ve already contacted the seller and he has no problem with me returning it. Can you (and any of the other 1886 experts here on the forum) evaluate the additional photos and let me know your thoughts?

Much appreciated!
Don

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January 30, 2023 - 6:02 am
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deerhunter said
Hi Jeremy,

I am very concerned that this 1886 may have been restored now. Under closer inspection, in addition to what you already pointed out, there is no wear on the hammer face either, the magazine band dovetail is loose, and I can see really fine scratches like steel wool marks to artificially wear the top tang, lower tang and forearm cap. The bore is overall pretty nice for a black powder bore, but with a slight roughness which, to me contradicts the lack of wear on the hammer face. I can also see a little bit of pitting on the lower tang around the screw with case-coloring over the top of it. I took a series of additional photos of these areas of concern. I’ve already contacted the seller and he has no problem with me returning it. Can you (and any of the other 1886 experts here on the forum) evaluate the additional photos and let me know your thoughts?

Much appreciated!

Don

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Don – as I looked at the original photos you submitted with the 86 today, my initial concern was the wood to metal fit. As I enlarge the photos and carefully look at fit I do not like what I see. These guns were hand-fit at the factory and the tolerances were superb – I have owned quite a few of these early 86’s over the last 50 +years, both deluxe and standard grade, but never had one with the overall separation of wood/metal I see on this gun. I would highly encourage you to make a thorough evaluation as it is better to be safe than sorry. This evaluation can be best done with good lighting and the gun in your lap. Maybe it is just the light which is causing my concern and affecting my judgement, but I fear the wood and metal on this Winchester did not leave the factory together. We are all in this together and I hope I am wrong. 

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January 30, 2023 - 6:13 am
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Thanks Burt.  I appreciate your assessment and the more I look at this rifle, the more I am picking it apart and don’t feel good about it. I’m thinking I should trust my gut and return it next weekend. The seller already agreed to take it back if I’m unhappy with it. I talked to him a few minutes ago.

Don

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January 30, 2023 - 1:49 pm
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Glad you can return it Don. The barrel address stands out to me. Look at it closely, the letter ‘Y’ especially. And the Cal stamp looks a bit funky

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January 30, 2023 - 2:08 pm
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In the original pictures the “W” in the caliber stamp is warped and the sanding marks on the barrel are not going straight down the barrel. The “D” in MANUFACTURED is not complete on the barrel address along with the “Y” already pointed out.

Bob

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January 30, 2023 - 2:36 pm
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  The D and the Y are the same as two of my 86’s that bracket his serial number. T/R

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January 30, 2023 - 6:05 pm
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Based on what I am seeing in the pictures that Don has posted, that rifle in my opinion has been restored/refinished, and then purposefully “aged” back in the common places to make it look like it is original.

Bert

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January 30, 2023 - 6:27 pm
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deerhunter said
Hi Jeremy,

I am very concerned that this 1886 may have been restored now. Under closer inspection, in addition to what you already pointed out, there is no wear on the hammer face either, the magazine band dovetail is loose, and I can see really fine scratches like steel wool marks to artificially wear the top tang, lower tang and forearm cap. The bore is overall pretty nice for a black powder bore, but with a slight roughness which, to me contradicts the lack of wear on the hammer face. I can also see a little bit of pitting on the lower tang around the screw with case-coloring over the top of it. I took a series of additional photos of these areas of concern. I’ve already contacted the seller and he has no problem with me returning it. Can you (and any of the other 1886 experts here on the forum) evaluate the additional photos and let me know your thoughts?

Much appreciated!

Don

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hey Don, I am happy to of helped you on this one. knowing what i saw I couldn’t sit back as others were complimenting how nice it was . I tried to word it as polite as possible that it was refinished and aged back in areas like upper tang and front belly etc. .  its sounds like you have got it figured now, sorry for this and hope the return goes well. 

Jeremy Scott.

WACA LIFE MEMBER, CFM MEMBER, ABKA MEMBER, JSSC MEMBER, MNO HISTORIAN 

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January 30, 2023 - 6:32 pm
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Jeremy Scott. said
first let me say congratulations. next let me say I mean no offence and of course opinions vary greatly. personally  I would want to hold this one in my hands to be sure … BUT…. I have some questions, mainly the pitting and wear on tip of hammer an worn knurling but where thumb rides to caulk hammer is near perfect colors ?.  also the end cap, belly and top tang i have questions.  my following comments only come in kindness and in the event someone looks at this in person and  im right then you can at least hopefully do something.  respectfully

  

Good eye Jeremy my friend! You & the others just saved Don a lot of money for a misrepresented gun. This is why I’m all for the threads critiquing and assessing guns for sale and purchases. Also kudos to the seller for excepting a return.

 Rick C 

   

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January 30, 2023 - 6:40 pm
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Thanks everyone sooo much, especially Jeremy, that provoked me to take a closer look at the issues. I now see it plain as day and I have definitely learned a good lesson.  Thank God the seller is cooperating and willing to take it back.  I’m so grateful for the experts on this forum that are willing to deal out the truth no matter how unpleasant it may be.

Thanks,

Don

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