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September 22, 2011
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Zebulon said
If I’m able to get out into the field again, it will be with a .33 WCF, a .38-55, or a .303 Savage. Why? Because I can, finally, after all these years.
Three excellent early choices. I think you should consider adding a .32-40 to the mix, either a Winchester 1894 or a Winchester 1885. You might also consider a Savage 1899. (Come to think of it, but I’ve already hit that trifecta.)
April 1, 2005
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Zebulon said
Got it. Thanks. I don’t have much experience with the 110 grain bullet but, from one session years ago with my M70 Featherweight that was capable of 1.25″ to 1.5″ 100 yard 3 shot groups, the 110 bullet (a Speer HotCor) would stay within 1.5″, satisfactory for Coyotes that became suspicious and hung back. The Fwt is a hunting rifle and those groups were adequate for the task. I didn’t own a chronograph.
Back in the old days I used to spend hours shooting prairie dogs with a 300 win mag and 110 “plinkers”. It was fun to shoot , had tremdous velocity and was accurate. In contrast, I had what we called a .450 Taylor – I have also heard it called a .450 Watts built on a custom stock – the custom RCBS dies I used were labeled .450 Taylor. It was basically a .375 H&H case, nearly straight-walled after running it thru the die with enough taper to tightly hold the .458 diameter bullet. I shot both 350 and 500 grain bullets with not much difference in accuracy. I took a grizzly with it back in the early 70’s. Until I had a custom muzzle brake installed, it was wicked to shoot. I used IMR 4350 and did not measure it – just filled the cartridge and added the bullet. Here is a sample round with a 30-30 for comparison. Sorry if I am off-base but its raining like a cow peeing on a flat rock here in Alaska today so I am just rambling and ended up looking at the WACA site. My lever action collection is gone except for one – a nice 73 to remember my passion of over 50 years.
April 15, 2005
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Burt,
I suspect that 450 Watts is serious Brown Bear medicine!
I am working up the 110 grain 30-06 loads for Varmint eradication, which is why I am attempting to develop a 1 MOA load. Accordingly, my old Model 54 may not be up to the task, but I don’t want to give up on it yet… I first hunted Black Tail deer and Roosevelt Elk with it in the Fall of 1974… 52-years ago for those that are counting.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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Bert H. said
Burt,
I suspect that 450 Watts is serious Brown Bear medicine!
I am working up the 110 grain 30-06 loads for Varmint eradication, which is why I am attempting to develop a 1 MOA load. Accordingly, my old Model 54 may not be up to the task, but I don’t want to give up on it yet… I first hunted Black Tail deer and Roosevelt Elk with it in the Fall of 1974… 52-years ago for those that are counting.
Bert
That’s all the reason you need.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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Burt, that full length 45 cartridge was the one Jack O’Connor took on his first African safari and wrote about it. He called it a Watts for Charlie Watts the gunsmith but the 450 Taylor – I think for Robert Chatfield – Taylor – was the same thing. Those were popular wildcats after Kynoch dropped all the big English express cartridges and before Winchester offered the 458.
The Watts/Taylor looks like Brontosaurus medicine to me and I can’t think of anything I want to shoot badly enough to fire one. That’s a spooky amount of 4350 to light off all at once.
Twenty years ago I picked up a like-new 1980 African and two boxes of vintage WW ammo, softs and solids, to go with it. I’ve never been tempted to fire it.
Ian, You are preaching to the choir. The .303 is a cherry 1931 Model 99F and I blew all my disposable bucks on a 99A 250 and two 99EGs this year, a 1947 250 and a 1954 300. I load for and shoot them all. Grafs sells Serbian .303 ammo and brass. The ammo is loaded with a 150 grain spitzer over some kind of Balkan witches’ brew and recoils more like a .308.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 23, 2007
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Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome
April 1, 2005
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dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome
Mark – yes it is
April 1, 2005
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Burt Humphrey said
dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome
Mark – yes it is
Mark – I have had that 1873 for 40 years. It is a little too nice to send to Norton Sound on a hunting trip with you!
March 23, 2007
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Burt Humphrey said
Burt Humphrey said
dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome
Mark – yes it is
Mark – I have had that 1873 for 40 years. It is a little too nice to send to Norton Sound on a hunting trip with you!
Oh you say that! That rifle would be perfect for taking a muskox. I can generally see them from my house when I’m ready to harvest one. It’s a very low impact hunt where she wouldn’t even get a scratch. I have another subsistence tag for this season….
January 20, 2023
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Burt Humphrey said
dimrod said
Burt,
That’s a marvelous model 1873. Is it chambered in 44 WCF?
Mark in Nome
Mark – yes it is
I will never own such a fine original 1873 Deluxe sporting rifle. Yours wears the best American stump Walnut I’ve seen in a long while.
Here is its pale shadow. Thankfully in 44 Winchester. I don’t think we have any Muskoxen in Texas but it’s hard to know for sure. 
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 26, 2019
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Bert H. said
Zebulon said
Pete settles the argument with a controlled experiment: bullets can be understabilized but not overstabillized.
See there?
I partially disagree… they can be pushed too fast while being overspun. I recently ran into that issue with some 110 grain bullet loads in 30-06. As I approached the max load of 58 grains of IMR 4064, the accuracy very grossly fell off (16″ group @100 yards).
Bert
I hear what you’re saying, Bert.
April 15, 2005
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Pete,
I think your theory has merit. As the velocity reaches maximum levels, the higher rate of bullet spin will (or does) negatively affect the accuracy. Slowing down the twist rate will most likely allow for better bullet stability at the extreme velocities, and it also reduce the barrel heat-up rate. I did notice that the barrel temp rose quite rapidly with the near maximum loads (I spaced my shots @ a 1 – 1.5 minute fire rate).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
January 20, 2023
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When I can get to it, I’ve got two new-to-me rifles for the 250-3000 cartridge, both Savage 99s, an EG with 1:14 barrel and a second generation A with a 1:10 barrel.
Using one bullet-manufacturer’s online engine, I’ve been plugging the dimensions of various 85-90 grain spitzers into the formula and have been surprised at how few are found to have good predicted stability at achievable velocities with the slower twist barrel.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Still waiting on my hard copy. I’ve been sneaking a few peeks at the online version. Maybe it will show up today! The PO where I have a box is better than the one where I live but both have issues with putting stuff in the correct box-if someone else doesn’t misplace it.
Mike
December 9, 2002
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Same here Mike, as I was also wondering when the hard copy was coming?
I’m sure it will be along soon! 
The people who handle it do a great job!
Tony
November 7, 2015
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Anthony #5411 said
Same here Mike, as I was also wondering when the hard copy was coming?
I’m sure it will be along soon!
The people who handle it do a great job!
Tony
They certainly do, Tony! That’s why I look forward to every issue.
Mike
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