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February 27, 2026
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Hello everyone. I have been lurking here for some time and just got a guest membership (For now). I’m going to start out with a question about buttplate screws. I know. Not the most exciting thing. I have a 94 44M that is in need of some love for it’s wood parts. I have dissembled it totally because it is also in need of a good cleaning. The butt plate is steel and as far as I know, is the factory butt plate. When I went to remove it to start the process of refinishing the stock, it had what I thought were phillips screws holding it on. These screws would not take a phillips bit so I looked a little closer. In the middle of the cruciform where the tip of the bit would go is some type of stud or nail. It comes up almost flush with the top of the head of the screw and will not allow a bit to enter the slot. At first I thought this was some kind of DIY thing but upon looking closely, it seems like this is how they are supposed to be. I’ve never run across anything like these screws. Does this sound like a normal thing? If so, what would be the process for removing them? Does it require a special bit or tool? It’s a pretty cool gun but it’s had a working life and it shows and I want to clean it up a bit. I’m going to try to get some photos soon to post here.
Thanks for looking!
March 31, 2009
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You need to post some pictures.
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/forum-rules-and-faqs/posting-pictures-2024/
February 27, 2026
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I think this will work. I’m really not sure what to make of this.
April 15, 2005
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Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
I do not know if the USRACo used slotted or Philips head screws. I will assume that both of the butt plate screws look the same on your Carbine?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 2, 2009
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It looks like to me that something got jammed in there. Use a pick to try to pry it out.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
February 27, 2026
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Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
I do not know if the USRACo used slotted or Philips head screws. I will assume that both of the butt plate screws look the same on your Carbine?
Bert
It’s not a USRA. It’s a 94 44M with a 3200000 serial number. Both screws are the same. This was not a new gun when I got it so anything could have been done to it before it got to me. It looked all factory but I don’t have the knowledge to say what it is. The other thing that I found odd is that it has a swivel mounted to the magazine. I thought it was an add on but when I took the gun apart, there was a cut in the barrel to accommodate the screw. Did some come from the factory with swivels mounted like that?
April 15, 2005
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cmj8591 said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
I do not know if the USRACo used slotted or Philips head screws. I will assume that both of the butt plate screws look the same on your Carbine?
Bert
It’s not a USRA. It’s a 94 44M with a 3200000 serial number. Both screws are the same. This was not a new gun when I got it so anything could have been done to it before it got to me. It looked all factory but I don’t have the knowledge to say what it is. The other thing that I found odd is that it has a swivel mounted to the magazine. I thought it was an add on but when I took the gun apart, there was a cut in the barrel to accommodate the screw. Did some come from the factory with swivels mounted like that?
Definitely not the factory original screws. I do not know if Winchester offered sling mounts on their Post-1963 production Model 94s.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 27, 2026
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1873man said
It looks like to me that something got jammed in there. Use a pick to try to pry it out.
Bob
I thought the same but I couldn’t get them to budge. After looking at you post, I picked at them again. Sure enough, one moved. I couldn’t budge the other so I used a soldering iron to put some heat on it and it finally popped out. It’s is still bewildering. The pieces looked like part of a screw or nail. Definitely made of metal. I can’t see how they could have gotten there by any other way than on purpose. For what reason, I haven’t got a clue. Thanks for pointing out the obvious!
February 27, 2026
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Bert H. said
cmj8591 said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
I do not know if the USRACo used slotted or Philips head screws. I will assume that both of the butt plate screws look the same on your Carbine?
Bert
It’s not a USRA. It’s a 94 44M with a 3200000 serial number. Both screws are the same. This was not a new gun when I got it so anything could have been done to it before it got to me. It looked all factory but I don’t have the knowledge to say what it is. The other thing that I found odd is that it has a swivel mounted to the magazine. I thought it was an add on but when I took the gun apart, there was a cut in the barrel to accommodate the screw. Did some come from the factory with swivels mounted like that?
Definitely not the factory original screws. I do not know if Winchester offered sling mounts on their Post-1963 production Model 94s.
What do you think about that butt plate?
July 17, 2012
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Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
Bert, I will have to respectfully disagree.
Winchester started using Phillips head screws on some of the .22 RF models in the early 1960’s and the Phillips head screws are shown as an alternative on the Winchester butt plate screw drawing 73-00-1401-B, dated 5-1-1961. They were only used sporadically and I covered them on page 279 in the Winchester Model 69 book. They were very likely carried forward into some of the post-1964 models but those are outside my realm of knowledge.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
April 15, 2005
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JWA said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.Bert, I will have to respectfully disagree.
Winchester started using Phillips head screws on some of the .22 RF models in the early 1960’s and the Phillips head screws are shown as an alternative on the Winchester butt plate screw drawing 73-00-1401-B, dated 5-1-1961. They were only used sporadically and I covered them on page 279 in the Winchester Model 69 book. They were very likely carried forward into some of the post-1964 models but those are outside my realm of knowledge.
Best Regards,
Jeff
OK, I will rephrase this… Winchester did not use Philips head screws on any of their Pre-64 production lever-action rifles & carbines. I would like to see a copy of the drawing you mention.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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cmj8591 said
Bert H. said
cmj8591 said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.
I do not know if the USRACo used slotted or Philips head screws. I will assume that both of the butt plate screws look the same on your Carbine?
Bert
It’s not a USRA. It’s a 94 44M with a 3200000 serial number. Both screws are the same. This was not a new gun when I got it so anything could have been done to it before it got to me. It looked all factory but I don’t have the knowledge to say what it is. The other thing that I found odd is that it has a swivel mounted to the magazine. I thought it was an add on but when I took the gun apart, there was a cut in the barrel to accommodate the screw. Did some come from the factory with swivels mounted like that?
Definitely not the factory original screws. I do not know if Winchester offered sling mounts on their Post-1963 production Model 94s.
What do you think about that butt plate?
It is the style butt plate that Winchester used for the Post-WW II production Model 94 Carbines. At some point in the early 1970s, I believe that the steel plate was replaced with a plastic plate, but I do not know exactly when that change occurred.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
July 17, 2012
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Bert H. said
JWA said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.Bert, I will have to respectfully disagree.
Winchester started using Phillips head screws on some of the .22 RF models in the early 1960’s and the Phillips head screws are shown as an alternative on the Winchester butt plate screw drawing 73-00-1401-B, dated 5-1-1961. They were only used sporadically and I covered them on page 279 in the Winchester Model 69 book. They were very likely carried forward into some of the post-1964 models but those are outside my realm of knowledge.
Best Regards,
Jeff
OK, I will rephrase this… Winchester did not use Philips head screws on any of their Pre-64 production lever-action rifles & carbines. I would like to see a copy of the drawing you mention.
Well, you may have to rephrase it even further, the slotted head screw drawing lists all the models it was used on but, for some reason, it does NOT include the Model 94 amongst all of the other lever actions (there is a revision note that says it was specifically removed from the list), so there is a possibility that very late 1962-onward 94 rifles MAY have some occasional Philips head screws. I have never seen one on a pre-64 Model 94, but the possibility exists.
I just emailed you the drawing I referenced in my previous post. I have found the Phillips head screws on the late models 67, 69 and 77, as well as a few others.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
April 15, 2005
Online
JWA said
Bert H. said
JWA said
Bert H. said
Winchester used standard slotted screws on all of their butt plates… never Philips head screws.Bert, I will have to respectfully disagree.
Winchester started using Phillips head screws on some of the .22 RF models in the early 1960’s and the Phillips head screws are shown as an alternative on the Winchester butt plate screw drawing 73-00-1401-B, dated 5-1-1961. They were only used sporadically and I covered them on page 279 in the Winchester Model 69 book. They were very likely carried forward into some of the post-1964 models but those are outside my realm of knowledge.
Best Regards,
Jeff
OK, I will rephrase this… Winchester did not use Philips head screws on any of their Pre-64 production lever-action rifles & carbines. I would like to see a copy of the drawing you mention.
Well, you may have to rephrase it even further, the slotted head screw drawing lists all the models it was used on but, for some reason, it does NOT include the Model 94 amongst all of the other lever actions (there is a revision note that says it was removed from the list), so there is a possibility that very late 1962-onward 94 rifles MAY have some occasional Philips head screws. I have never seen one on a pre-64 Model 94, but the possibility exists.
I just emailed you the drawing I referenced in my previous post. I have found the Phillips head screws on the late models 67, 69 and 77, as well as a few others.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Currently, I have 14,456 post-WW II production Model 94 Carbines documented in my survey… exactly zero of them have Philips head screws attaching the checkered steel butt plates to the butt stocks. At this point, I am very confident that Winchester did not use Philip head screws on the Model 94 through the pre-64 production. After 1957, the Model 94 was sole remaining classic lever-action in production.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bert-
While definitely NOT a classic lever action rifle, on the Model 70, Phillips butt plate screws start turning up, mixed with slotted screws in 1961 and by 1962 they’re pretty much all Phillips head. This is with the composition (plastic) butt plate that had replaced the steel “widow’s peak” plate in the late 1950s.
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
July 17, 2012
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Ok, I agree with your rephrasing and think we are at an equitable equilibrium, I also believe there are no lever action pre-64 models with a Phillips screw but there were pre-64 Phillips head screws used on some of the rimfire models from circa 1961-1963).
When discussing Winchesters, never say “all” and never say “never” 
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
February 27, 2026
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Thanks for the help gentlemen.
April 15, 2005
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Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bert-
While definitely NOT a classic lever action rifle, on the Model 70, Phillips butt plate screws start turning up, mixed with slotted screws in 1961 and by 1962 they’re pretty much all Phillips head. This is with the composition (plastic) butt plate that had replaced the steel “widow’s peak” plate in the late 1950s.
Best,
Lou
Lou,
That fits in perfectly with the discussion I just had with Jeff (on the phone). Winchester transitioned from the steel butt to the plastic plates on the Model 94 sometime shortly after 1964, and I suspect that is when the Philips head screws made their debut.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 15, 2005
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JWA said
Ok, I agree with your rephrasing and think we are at an equitable equilibrium, I also believe there are no lever action pre-64 models with a Phillips screw but there were pre-64 Phillips head screws used on some of the rimfire models from circa 1961-1963).
When discussing Winchesters, never say “all” and never say “never”
Best Regards,
Agreed! 
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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