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January 20, 2023
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Chuck said
What do you think a CSMC Grand American in 410 is worth? Looks brand new.
I just browsed their Web catalog and the only CSC-built Model 21 .410 bore was a used one, allegedly unfired, fine line scroll engraved generous coverage. Priced at about 25 grand.
Another thing. CSC wants at least the seven thousand Steve talked about – now I know where he got it — and mostly up, reworked 12 gauge Winchester brand Model 21. Now, this does include a lifetime mechanical warranty, which is not a small deal, and they are selling essentially new guns, not guns that are mechanically 60 years old with no warranty. Like mine.
So you get something for the serious price boost; it just prices a gun out of my reach.
Chuck, I’m going to guess most .410 Model 21 guns are bought for investment purposes and aren’t shot. I mean, if pulling the trigger one time wipes the price of a fur coat for your wife off the gun’s value… you probably won’t shoot it. That, to me, is jam tomorrow and never jam today. Boring.
[While nobody is looking, check this out — Tony’s saddle rifle came today.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Zeb-
I think you ought to crack open a can of Swiss FFg to celebrate.
Mike
March 31, 2009
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Nice shooter. You need a little sock for the rear sight so it can be flipped back in the correct position.
I would shoot the 21. Maybe one shot per side. After cleaning no one would ever know. But then again, I don’t collect safe queens. That kind of money I could buy a few rifles.
November 19, 2006
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Chuck said
I’ve said many times the first rule of collecting is to collect what you like. But, these guns will live on way past any of us. I just hate to see them ruined for future generations. Yes when you own it you can do what you like, but we will only own them for a short time. Once modified they can’t go back.
I agree with this. In fact, I’ve done that for the past 50+ years. I do have one caution. Collect what you like but keep your expectations in check. Just because you think your acquisition is super cool, it doesn’t mean others will (i.e. people who you would like to ultimately sell it to). And, just because others might think what you have is cool, interesting, etc., it doesn’t mean they want to own it. A personal example is my Standard .50 caliber Camp Rifle. I have one and I’m very glad that I have only one. I learned about this very rare rifle a long time ago – before the internet. It took me years to even find a photo of one and when I finally acquired mine, it was the first one I had ever held in my hands. I’ve sold it to quite a few collectors. Everyone does find it of interest, unusual, etc. but I’ve yet to have anyone say anything to the effect, “when it comes time to sell, let me know.”
Ian, from Forgotten Weapons, does a fine video on the Camp .50. He discusses rarity (only about 25 ever made) but also states, “… these are extremely rare guns … their rarity is only matched by the rarity of the people that are particularly interested in them… this is like the definition of the forgotten weapons company.” I’ve also owned a Standard Arms Model G (pump/semi-auto) in .35 Remington. I thought the idea of a combination pump/semi-auto made shortly after the turn of the last century was pretty cool. People aren’t climbing over each other to buy these either – but most do agree they are cool. They had a terrible reputation for reliability but the one I had ticked off the rounds pretty darn slick.
The moral of my story is: BUY WINCHESTERS! I don’t regret owning my Camp .50 but I’m glad I don’t have a safe full of them. I suspect my heirs will be grateful for this as well.
It’s not a bad thing to buy what other people like too!
January 20, 2023
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Chuck said
Nice shooter. You need a little sock for the rear sight so it can be flipped back in the correct position.
I would shoot the 21. Maybe one shot per side. After cleaning no one would ever know. But then again, I don’t collect safe queens. That kind of money I could buy a few rifles.
Chuck,
We think alike. I just put in an order with MVA for a set of sight covers and a replacement knurled head screw so the rear Soule sight can be removed from the base and replaced, without a screwdriver.
I assume you are talking about the 25 grand .410. I can’t imagine buying a gun I couldn’t shoot. If I could have afforded a Gullwing 300 SL I would drive it. An old friend, when he was in tall Cotton for a while, ordered a 21 Grand American. Kept it in his safe and only took it out to wipe it down, once a year. The magic leaked out after a couple of years and he sold it..
My Irish ancestry forbids my ever being an Anglophile but, when it comes to “bespoke” shotguns, the Limey’s have a better idea. If a Royal grade Purdey your dad ordered and you inherited, has a too-long LOP and blue-worn barrels? Cut down the stock, reblue the barrels, re-cut the checkering — Purdey will do it for you, send lots of money. Open the chokes? Sure. Barrels too long? They’ll cut ’em down and jug choke them.
Won’t all that kill the resale value? Try to buy one and find out!
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 31, 2009
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I wonder if MVA would have a knurled screw to fit my Sharps?
Yes, most shotguns in England get reblued. They like pretty.
OK, this is a little off base. When I was in Junior High school one of the nicest looking teachers would get picked up each afternoon and try to get into a 300 Gullwing. A few of us would set and watch her try every day.
January 20, 2023
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Getting into a Gullwing would require foregoing a good deal of modesty. Oddly enough, in my high school there was a beautiful young woman, I’d guess now she was in her late Twenties or esrly Thirties, whose daily driver was the first Porsche sports car I ever saw. It was a white 356 with a Sun roof, tan leather, and dog dish hubcaps. On arrival and departure, she had an admiring audience of adolescent boys. As the French say, the more things change the more they remain the same.
The knurled screw I ordered replaces the slotted head screw that secures the upper part of MVA’s several Soule tang sights to their bases. A number of BPCR competitors prefer to remove the staff and store it separately from the rifle while travelng.
To answer your question, it would depend on who made your sight. If it is an original Sharps, I doubt it.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
March 31, 2009
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Zebulon said
The knurled screw I ordered replaces the slotted head screw that secures the upper part of MVA’s several Soule tang sights to their bases. A number of BPCR competitors prefer to remove the staff and store it separately from the rifle while travelng.
To answer your question, it would depend on who made your sight. If it is an original Sharps, I doubt it.
The sight base is an original Sharps. The staff is from a Maynard. The current screw is slotted not knurled as it should be.
January 20, 2023
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Well, how about a little shade tree engineering? There are industrial supply houses that sell knurled head screws. I doubt we’d be lucky enough to find one with the right pitch but all we need is the right diameter and a thread die. Once you determine dimensions. Using your drill press, recut threads on several and trim to length. A torch and some Cherry Red case hardening powder from Piehtoolco.com. That product replaces Kasenit and doesn’t contain or emit cyanide.
MVA gets a painful $36 plus shipping for their screw.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
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