To restore a collectible Winchester or not?|Page 2|Restoration, Repair and Maintenance|Forum|Winchester Collector

Chuck said
It wasn’t an experiment.  You just proved one of our points. The travesty was when the one rifle was messed up.  I would have felt better to have the pair in original condition.
  

  Well said. T/R

Its the same for a restored car. The guy that pays for the restoration will never get his money out of it unless its was done a long time ago when the cost were cheaper. Its better to buy one that has already been restored than you taking the hit on the restore. It has to be a really rare car to come out ahead. 

Bob

1873man said
Its the same for a restored car. The guy that pays for the restoration will never get his money out of it unless its was done a long time ago when the cost were cheaper. Its better to buy one that has already been restored than you taking the hit on the restore. It has to be a really rare car to come out ahead. 
Bob
  

Very true, I have been out of the antique & classic auto auction circle since my dad died but that was certainly the case. In more recent years I worked with a resto-mod company that would occasionally build a special vehicle for sale but the marketing effort was a significant factor. There were folks who would commission a restoration, take it to a few shows until they got bored with it and sell it at a loss. Some had a collection of similar cars. I doubt any of them expected to recoup their investment. It seems pride of ownership sometimes comes with a hefty price tag. Maybe we’re seeing the same thing with restored and modified collectible firearms. 

Mike

  This Forum has a broad spectrum of Winchester collectors. There is no general rule that can be applied to all Winchesters vintages from the 1860s to 1964. Once you add history and or ownership of a firearm all rules are off. When you restore to new condition a gun with known history it lessens the history. Anything done to an antique gun with history after period of usage other than repair of broken parts is value negative.

  Speaking for myself, when I hold an old gun with history in my hand and shoot, I want to feel what it’s period owner felt. T/R

tim tomlinson said
I don’t have the gift of the English language as Zeb does, so bear with me please.  First, this is my opinion only and not some ordinance that stands firm in the annals of time.  I don’t think there is any answer that is inherently right or wrong for everyone.  If you own a Winchester of any condition it is yours to do with as you see fit for you and you only.  Simply put, a low grade rifle is collectible if it makes you happy and you can afford it without taking food out of your or other’s mouths.  IF you intend to fully get your money back or even make a profit, then the rules change in the moment and you then need to purchase what will sell readily for more than you paid. The value of pride of ownership is not able to be computed, but has its bearing on that person.  This includes “restored” firearms.  None of this means I have to like what you own or buy what you sell.  I buy and collect what I LIKE AND CAN AFFORD!  My tastes have no bearing on what you do or don’t do.  I can only say what I may like and that changes with time, experience, and income.  All else is pure conjecture that should have no bearing on anyone but the prospective owner.  Yes, there are times I think, “how sad!  Wish that had not been done to that fine rifle!”  But that does not give me the right or responsibility to judge a person and their motives.  Too many are too quick to impose their values (and ethics) on others in my opinion as well.  Tim
  

SO perfectly said.  Too many people judge and misjudge others in this world by thinking that only their reasoning or values are the only thing that is correct.  Surely we do not need to do that in this community.  My own needs, wants, desires, wishes, and the amount of money I have to fulfill them may be different than someones else but that does not allow either of us to think more or less than the other.  

Collect 90%, 10%, restored or not.  Make yourself happy.  Your happiness yardstick should not be someone else’s acceptance of your choice.

Michael

I’ve said many times the first rule of collecting is to collect what you like.  But, these guns will live on way past any of us.  I just hate to see them ruined for future generations.  Yes when you own it you can do what you like, but we will only own them for a short time.  Once modified they can’t go back. 

TXGunNut said
I think there may be nearly as many definitions of “collectible” as there are collectors. I know that many of the Winchesters I consider “collectible” will not appeal to all collectors. I’m OK with that, I bought it to study and enjoy. Higher condition examples are certainly more sought after and easier to sell when the time comes but I enjoy shooting and studying the somewhat lower condition examples because I enjoy the character honest wear brings to the party. I’ve sold the few very high condition firearms I’ve purchased because they had no character and I was hesitant to shoot or hunt with them. It’s fortunate we all have different likes and interests, this hobby would be very boring if we were all chasing the same guns for the same reasons. 
 
Mike
  

I agree with this. I want a rifle with character that I can take out shooting or hunting. None of my guns sit in a safe except for the hand guns. I have no use for a 100 year-old gun that looks like it left the factory yesterday nor would I spend that kind of money for one, nor would I spend 5-6K on a restoration project. Now I also don’t want a back yard hack job. I like Burt’s RED Book descriptions I gravitate toward the 60% guns.

And as a footnote to my best friend Zeb, I wouldn’t pay $7000 minimum for a Model 21 either LMAO. If I want a piece of art, I’ll buy a painting. I’ll stick with my 1963 model 12.

Steven Gabrielli said

…..And as a footnote to my best friend Zeb, I wouldn’t pay $7000 minimum for a Model 21 either LMAO. If I want a piece of art, I’ll buy a painting. I’ll stick with my 1963 model 12.

  

Steve,  I beg to differ, which is unusual for us.

If you own a Model 12, you own a piece of industrial art. In addition to his considerable skills as a creative inventor and engineer of guns, T.C. Johnson had the artist’s eye for good lines and curves and a sense of overall “rightess” of proportions.  His designs reflect an understanding of the ancient Greeks’ Golden Mean.  You and I share an appreciation of Johnson’s ine of self loaders, another example.

Bill

Usually up, alert takes longer these days. 

PS.  If you should ever experience an unquenchable hunger for an M21,  they don’t start at 7K. 

A seldom seen POS Grade with engraved drivers license number, splinter forearm and rotted non-factory pad, might be had for less than 3K. But these usually get swept into Galazan’s intake manifold and become Grand Americans. 

A nice 12 gauge field or Skeet grade with reasonable dimensions can be had for less than five. Like mine. Granted that’s not cheap but, compared to what the lowest V grade Parker still brings,, it’s a bargain for a piece of Americana. And the Parker is far more fragile and the V is very plain. 

If I can ever get any quail hunting done, it will have to be on a preserve and I will use the 21. Not to keep it from getting dirty but because Texas quail leases are now for rich folks only. And I don’t have a dog. 

Later,

Bill

Chuck, that’s an interesting question. CSC has a price list and let me see if I can find it. That would be the price for them to build one from scratch, not what the might charge for a refurbished one for resale. 

Incidentally, they have an online inventory of reworked Model 21s. The prices look a little stiff but remember they are essentially new guns. CSC makes parts for inventory and warrants the guns. As I’ve said, a 12 gauge can be had for far less pain than a 28. 

I’ll look and come back here to report..