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Model 64 Deluxe
November 24, 2015
9:31 pm
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South Texas
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Here is one on gunbroker.  It looks to me like it is dovetailed into the forend cap.  Notice the color of the forend cap vs that of the QD sling eye and the position in reference to the one in question above.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=525333768

DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

November 24, 2015
9:38 pm
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DSC_0245-Copy-3.JPG1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member

"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington

November 24, 2015
11:29 pm
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Man, after looking at some M64's about 99% of them are post war. Very few 30's rifles out there. I have a problem with the ugly hammers. Big Larry

November 25, 2015
12:42 am
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I only have 4 Winchesters (1948-53) and none of them have the pre-War checkered hammer.  But I have sent a question to the seller with the 64 currently offered and would like to know what his rifle has up front.  So thank you, Larry, for those links.  BK

(I guess I've opened a can of worms, huh?)

November 25, 2015
12:57 am
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You didn't open any can of worms. This is how collectors learn about their guns.

Bob

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November 25, 2015
1:32 am
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 A friend of mine has a Model 64 deluxe that was purchased new by his Father in the 1950's.This rifle has not been altered in any way.Went to his home this evening to look at the forend cap.It is dovetailed

November 25, 2015
4:47 am
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Ive got an used up Model 71 deluxe SN 22082.  The forearm cap does have a dovetail for the QR sling eye and it appears to be held in place by a weld on the back side.  I would venture to guess that the Model 64 deluxe rifle QR sling eye is no different.  It would be interesting to know if they are all manufactured that way or not.  

Here are some pics of the Model 71 forearm cap.

DSC06718.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06719.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06720.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06724.JPGImage Enlarger

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November 25, 2015
6:11 am
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Wow, that's it!  My endcap doesn't show a sign of a weld but has a rectangular cut in it.  Could that have been for a retaining or tensioning spring?  Hmmm, Gentlemen, you guys have nailed it down and now we are getting close.  I'm jumping the "gun" here but it seems reasonable to me that this would be a less expensive production step than milling the whole thing from a single block.  Winchester might have learned from wartime experience.  BK

 

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November 25, 2015
1:04 pm
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Bruce Koligian said 

 
   I'm jumping the "gun" here but it seems reasonable to me that this would be a less expensive production step than milling the whole thing from a single block.  
 
  
 

  Bruce, that is the same thought I had last evening after looking at my friend's Model 64 deluxe.

November 25, 2015
3:15 pm
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Bruce,

That cut in the base you think is for a spring or something is nothing more than when they milled the dovetail they cut through the other side because the thickness of the cap. They would of relied on the pinch of the dovetail to hold it in place.

Bob

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November 25, 2015
5:34 pm
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Big Larry said

Man, after looking at some M64's about 99% of them are post war. Very few 30's rifles out there. I have a problem with the ugly hammers. Big Larry

Larry,

In my ongoing survey of the Model 64, I have found a relatively large number of them that are pre-war... you must not be looking in the right places for them.

Pre-war = 771 (45%)

Post-war = 942 (55%)

Bert

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November 25, 2015
5:37 pm
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Bruce Koligian said 

 (I guess I've opened a can of worms, huh?)

Bruce,

Absolutely not!  As Bob stated, this is how we as collectors learn more about the subject at hand, and it is a good thing.

Bert

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November 25, 2015
5:42 pm
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1892takedown said

Ive got an used up Model 71 deluxe SN 22082.  The forearm cap does have a dovetail for the QR sling eye and it appears to be held in place by a weld on the back side.  I would venture to guess that the Model 64 deluxe rifle QR sling eye is no different.  It would be interesting to know if they are all manufactured that way or not.  

Here are some pics of the Model 71 forearm cap.

DSC06718.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06719.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06720.JPGImage EnlargerDSC06724.JPGImage Enlarger

Chris,

Good question... I need to start looking at both the Model 64 Deer Rifles, and the Model 71 Special Rifles more closely.  Thanks for posting the pictures.

Bert

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November 25, 2015
6:43 pm
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Bob wrote "...when they milled the dovetail they cut through the other side because the thickness of the cap."  You are most likely correct.  It's a very precise cut through the thin base with no flashing around the edges.  Winchester did good work!  But the machine swirls on the flat surface of the dovetail are reminiscent of Winchester's WW2 milling on Garands.  There was no need to worry about making it pretty.  So now the search for the insert begins!  I might have to have one milled and blued.

 

Bob and Bert:  "Can of Worms University" is the best school for learning.  I 've received degrees there in 1911s, 1903s and Garands.  But being relatively new to Winchester lever guns, I'm beginning to think they might be the most complicated and fun to study.  Smile BK

November 26, 2015
6:19 pm
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1873man wrote "That cut in the base you think is for a spring or something is nothing more than when they milled the dovetail they cut through the other side because the thickness of the cap."  Yes, I agree.

I inquired about this with Don Grove and his wife just sent me an email stating "Don checked and all of his 64.s have dovetails in the forend cap."

That's good enough for me.  Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and thanks for the great input.  It's time to take this can o worms fishin!  BK

December 17, 2015
12:43 am
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Don't know if this is still under discussion. Just to add to the data, I just received a 1950 64 Deluxe ("well loved" - but appropriately priced and range ready) and it, too, looks like a dovetailed swivel.

 

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December 17, 2015
5:21 am
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supergimp said

Don't know if this is still under discussion. Just to add to the data, I just received a 1950 64 Deluxe ("well loved" - but appropriately priced and range ready) and it, too, looks like a dovetailed swivel.

 

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What is the serial number and caliber of your Model 64 Deer Rifle?

Bert

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December 17, 2015
5:50 am
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SN 1173916

30WCF

Curious. The auction house listed this as 1950 but the lookup says 1938. It was totally an impulse buy as it was lonely for bids and I had already been outbid on my real target. 

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December 17, 2015
1:14 pm
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April 1938 to be a little more precise. I have no idea where the auction house came with 1950.

Thanks,
Bert

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December 17, 2015
7:08 pm
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I find this thread especially interesting for a number of reasons. One being my own Model 64 .219 Zipper has the forend cap with the swivel that rotates either left or right in a circle. Renneberg shows a picture of this type of swivel on page 219 of his book, and states the following: "Deluxe versions have beautifully inletted swivel sling mounts and even some standard grade guns have been authenticated with the same inletted mounts (though very infrequently - and when they are seen they also have the modified forend caps as on the deluxes). The one pictured below is identical to the one Renneberg has pictured with the checkered forend. Madis describes this same forend cap with the rotating swivel as "...also seen here is the latest type of forend tip which has the integral swivel base, made as part of the forend tip forging..." Madis also shows the two other types of forend caps used with affixing slings, one of which is described as "...the other to fit into a dovetail cut under the barrel."

The lower swivel base is inletted into the buttstock wood, but only slightly, but this gun is a standard grade and not a deluxe.

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