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I was wondering if anyone had ever seen a model 1886 that was chambered for a 32 gauge shotgun? Are there any specs out there on them? I plan on building one either on one of my takedown actions or perhaps a strait model and I just recently picked up a 38-56 to have bored out for the project. The 32 gauge shells seem to be the same rim diameter as the 50-70 cartridges. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Texas…
I have to question Why? Winchester made 50-110 Express smoothbore rifles, and shot shells for them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I guess for my why would be 32 gauge brass and ammo are fairly easy to buy and I also have some already. I also like the idea of having a model 1886 32 gauge shotgun rather than a model 1886 50-110 express. Now if I had a used 50-110 barrel I would simply use it. Thanks Texas..
Why destroy a perfectly good original winchester???? I may get flamed from other members….but this just sound blasphemous to me
I was not going to ruin the original, if its set up as takedown then it would simply be one gun with a two barrel set. If I changed the barrel on the strait rife I could always change it back again too. The 38-56 barrel I was going to use is a unit by itself and at some point and time someone had cut a inch or so off the muzzle end and the rifling is pretty much done as well. Texas..
Unless the rim diameter of the 32-ga shell matches up with the bolt & extractor on a standard Model 1886, you are going to have to alter it as well. That is why I would go with a 50-110 chambered smoothbore. Bore the 38-56 barrel out to .50 caliber, cut the chamber for 50-110, buy the brass, and load your own.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Online
If the .38-56 barrel is expendable, as it sounds like it is, why not rebore to.45-70?
Hello back Bert, when I look at my shell holder chart the 50-70 and the 50-90 take a #31 RCBS shell holder and the 50-110 Win takes a #5 RCBS shell holder however on the same chart all three of these take the same #57 shell holder made by 4-D. I will have to check the bolt face and extractor and see if it will work or not. As for not redoing the 38-56 barrel into 45-70, I have a takedown and a strait 1886 already that shoot fine so I do not need another in that caliber unless its a really great price. I will check though on the availability of 50-110 brass for if I decided to go that way.
How much of a choke did the 50-110 smoothbore have? Thanks Texas..
Some random thoughts:
The 32 ga. has a slightly larger rim dia, so the bolt face and extractor will need to be modified.
Some other modifications will be required to the following parts: Carrier, Ctg. Guide, Ctg. Stop, S-hook, lever, loading gate, magazine tube/Ctg. Opening in the frame and possibly the magazine tube itself and the left-hand side of the frame.
Keep in mind that many of the modifications will require tolerances in the +/- .002 range, radiuses and angles are also absolutely critical.
I don’t reload for shotguns, so I don’t have the max OAL data for the 32 ga. but another concern would be to ensure that the 32 ga is not too long for the action. I suspect plastic hulls might be once fired… brass might work.
So, lots of investigation, figuring and careful modifications will be needed. This is not something I personally would attempt without having a “practice” receiver to work out the bugs.
Thanks Mike, I would prefer to modify a takedown 86 that is in 45-70, I also have a takedown one in 33 Win. and several strait 86’s. I know its a big chore as your e-mail reflects but its something I would like to do. (perhaps I’m a bit of what some call a Redneck). I would prefer if I could find the parts to make a complete takedown front end to swap on the frame but if not I could just use it with what I had. What I would like to know is if the 50-110 smoothbore had any sort of choke or if it was just cylinder bore. I would only be using it for grouse hunting as I already do with my 24 gauge single shot H&R c/w brass shells and my black powder hand loads. Thanks again Texas..
Texas,
A 50-100 in a 86 is the biggest shell that can go through a 86. A 50-110 gun has 9 parts machined to accommodate the bigger shell including the mag tube and some of the parts are machined to there limits to do so. So If the 32 gauge shell is any bigger than a 50-100 there is no chance it will feed in a 86 frame. There has been some pretty good gun smiths try to make a 50-110 out of a standard 86 and have failed to get them to feed. They said if you have a 50-110 and want to see if its a original Winchester 50-110, if it feeds its original. There are probably some out there that can do the work. I’m putting this out there so you understand what you are in for before you turn a 86 into scrap iron.
Good luck, Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
If your going to toy around just to for the sake of it, unless that 86 is in poor to relic condition, I’d just get one of these Jap-Winchester / Browning Re-Pops to make your experimental 32 gauge shotgun. I mean just of the sake of not have to worry about screwing up an original action / parts.
Sounds like a fun “shooter” project either way. Hell, just call Browning / Fabrique Nationale up and have them make a specially ordered 86 in 32 gauge shotgun. Wonder what the bill on that would be? I doubt anyone there could even pull it off.
Sincerely,
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
Thanks Bob, Perhaps its more of a job then I reckoned on at first. I will have to see what’s out there for parts etc. before I do much. Thanks for the reply. Texas..
Hello Maverick, Actually I have done something like what you suggested and that was contact Turnbull in NY. They have not gotten back to me yet. Several years ago I was going to trade them 3 bear hunts (I’m an outfitter for black bear in Ontario Canada) for them to make a complete new front end in 45-70 caliber for the 33 Win takedown I was using at the time. Before we had everything set in stone I run into a 86 takedown 45-70 at a show for $2,500 or trade in great shape so I traded some 94 SRC’S and savage 99’s for it. At that time I think they had wanted about $3,000 to build the front end complete to fit my action. I carried the 33 takedown to many remote mines I worked in all over Canada and used it to hunt caribou and grizzly bear as well.
On a side note just before Christmas this year I was forming some 33 brass outa Hornady lever evolution cases and with them being shorter than standard 45-70 brass they were just about the perfect length for the 33.
Thanks for the reply Texas
There is no choke constriction in the smoothbore Model 1885 or Model 1886 barrels.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
I’ve had a change of heart and after looking at all the work that would need to be done. It would be much easier if the 86 was already an operating gun chambered for a 50 cal. cartridge.
That being said I believe I would like to try for a 45-110 smooth bore. That way is does not alter the action at all. Does anyone have any idea where I could get the steel cap that goes on the receiver end of the fore stock c/w the 3 adjusting screws and thimble for the magazine tube to thread in? I may have a nose cap here that I can use and I would just make a new fore stock and use my existing takedown mag tube for now. Thanks Texas
As I’ve read through this thread (noteworthy for some very excellent advice and experience), what made most pragmatic sense to me would be take the .38/56 barrel and bore it to .45/70 or .45/90 smoothbore. I would think you could load .45/70 shot shells to perform similarly to 32 ga. shot shells. And you would have saved yourself a whole lot of work!
By the way, .45/110 smoothbore – would these cartridges cycle through the action?
Hello Steve,
For the cycling part I had figured to use some 45-90 brass I had here and load in some lead to the maximum length that would feed thru the 1886 action ok and then measure and determine the maximum OL I could use with a brass case minus the lead projectile. 45-100 is 2.6 inches and 45-110 is 2.8 inches. I would use which ever worked the best.
When Hornady came out with the new lever evolution rounds for the 45-70 they cut almost 1/8 of an inch off of the brass case so that the OL length with their new style pointed bullet would properly crimp and not be too long for the newer 95 marlins. With the standard case and the new bullet in a model 86 it feeds well. They are about 2.64 long
I save the new hornady cases that I fire to use to form 33 Win. brass and it saves the trimming that is required for a standard 45-70 case.
Thanks for the feedback. Texas
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