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Interchangeability of reproduction 86 parts with original 86
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Larry
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December 31, 2021 - 11:35 am
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Hello  I am hoping someone has researched the ability of using parts from a newer production 1886 from companies like  Chiappa, Browning, Turnbull, new Win 86, etc.  To repair an old original Win 1886.

   I have a 86 in 33wcf that I am having issues with.  Unfortunately may have bought it from a unscrupulous seller that stated the gun had no mechanical issues and functioned as it should.  Bought it – cleaned it –  and put it in the safe.  Well decided to try to use it this year to take a doe.  Went to the range and soon discovered it would not feed a round properly. It appears the carrier/lifter is not lifting the front of the shell high enough to enter the chamber.  From research it sounds like an issue related to the carrier and wonder if I find a part is needed will the repro gun parts work to get it up and running.  I have never worked on an 86 so will be learning as I go, not a smith.

  To begin prior to a tear down I intend to remove the stock to spray the internals with cleaner hoping to flush out any gunk that may be an issue and also check the carrier spring screw to ensure it is tight, plus inspect everything I can see for damage or wearing.

 

Again mainly want to know if I have part options or am I limited to finding the almost impossinle origional parts.

Any and all suggestions or advice welcomed.

   Thanks

     Larry

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December 31, 2021 - 10:26 pm
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Who loaded your ammo?  Is the overall length of the loaded round in spec?  Loaded length should be no longer than 2.7″.  You don’t have to remove the wood to spray the internals of the gun.  Just use a cleaner that is for guns.  If you don’t have a set of gunsmith screwdrivers and the knowledge don’t take anything apart.  The seller may not be the problem.  Most of the dealers don’t actually shoot their guns to know anything about functionality.  That is what gunsmiths are for. 

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December 31, 2021 - 11:00 pm
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Chuck said
  The seller may not be the problem.  Most of the dealers don’t actually shoot their guns to know anything about functionality.  That is what gunsmiths are for.   

True, but in that case, they shouldn’t be saying it “functioned as it should.”  How would he know?

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January 1, 2022 - 1:27 am
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 Larry, The first thing I would check is the length of the loading gate screw. Back it out 2 turns and see if that helps. The later lighter receivers used a shorter screw because they thinned the metal, so an older style screw was long enough that the tail stuck out. I bought one and noticed the screw was loose, after tightening the screw it bound and the gun did not feed. If the tail of a screw is to long it will drag. Check the screw tails inside the receiver. T/R 

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January 1, 2022 - 1:49 am
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Larry,

Measure your length of the shells your using  and post it here and take some pictures of the shells along with the box so we can see what your trying to use. It would be helpful to take a closeup photo from the top side with the lever full forward so the elevator is up without a shell in it. Diagnosing feed issues is the hardest thing to do without the gun in hand.

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Larry
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January 1, 2022 - 12:56 pm
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Thank all of you who have responded I appreciate it.

  The ammo is old stock factory remington see attached picture. OAL is right around 2.79″ or 71 mm which from my research is ok, is that wrong?

  I have flushed out the action no change

  I did try loosening the load gate screw no change

  I also tried removing the cartridge stop as it seemed the clearance was very small, no change. ( feeding one shell )

  Believe the lifter rises to proper point without ammo being in gun but if I push down on it the lifter falls without much pressure at all. 

  The action cycles with no shells but with a shell it locks up as soon as I try to close the action.

  I feel comfortable working on it as I have succesfully dismantled and reassembled at least 7  Sako Finnwolfs and othere guns.   Have just never messed with an 86 before.

Attached some pictures of the lifter/carrier.

 

Sorry I have pictures but no attachment button available to me to post here.  I can send them to someone or if you give me permission via an attachment button I will post.

  

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Larry
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January 1, 2022 - 4:02 pm
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Another update I notice if I shake the gun vigorously something within the action rattles. Don’t have another 86 to compare if shaken would it rattle???  

 

Also measured shells from 2 other Remingtom 33 boxes and they measured the same. All boxes bought at different times and supposed to be factory loaded. 

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January 1, 2022 - 7:28 pm
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2.79″ is too long.  Maximum is 2.7″. These are .095″ too long. 71 mm is 2.795″.   Push one of the bullets in to 2.7″ or just a .001″ less and see if it cycles.  A vise will work.  Do it gently. It won’t take much to move the bullet. 

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January 1, 2022 - 8:14 pm
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Larry,

Here are some pictures of my 86 33 extra extra light weight showing how the elevator sits in the full up position and with a shell in it. If you want you can email the pictures to me and I will post them. The shell feed and was 2.72″ long. If you want you can email the pictures to me and I will post them.

Bob

33.jpgImage Enlarger33c.jpgImage Enlarger33b.jpgImage Enlarger33a.jpgImage Enlarger

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January 1, 2022 - 9:56 pm
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Hi Larry        You will most likely find that the carrier spring is broken, worn, loose or missing. The screw is behind the hammer, you can get at it with the stock off.    The  purpose of the spring is to hold the carrier fully up or fully down, when the lever moves it into position.   Most repo springs wont fit., but you  should be able to get original type springs.          Hope this helps.    Eric

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January 1, 2022 - 10:10 pm
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Larry,

Here are the pictures you sent. I think Eric is on to something with the carrier spring and you did say the elevator pushed down without much force. It is up where it should be but with a shell in there and you lever the shell in, does it push back down before the shell feeds in the chamber?

Bob

Another-view-of-carrier.JPGImage EnlargerCarrier-no-shell.JPGImage EnlargerCarrier-with-a-shell-in-it-when-jams.JPGImage EnlargerRear-of-carrier.JPGImage EnlargerShell-in-carrier-before-try-to-close.JPGImage EnlargerShells.JPGImage Enlarger

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January 1, 2022 - 11:32 pm
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Thsnks agsin guys for responding.

The carrier spring was the first thing I checked when I took the stock off to flush out the action.  I take the wood off to avoid getting it soaked and also to allow fluid and dirt to easily drain. I will send Bob a picture of the end of the carrier dpring under the upper tang.  I couldn’t see all of it just the back.  The screw is tight, could not see a break.

 

   I presume to replace it I will need to tear the action down.

 

That is why I was hoping someone would respond as to if any of the reproduction gun parts will work on the old 86’s. Unfortunately no one has  other than Eric saying “most carrier spring” repro won’t.  But which ones will? 

I will try shortening a shell to see if it makes a difference. Can anyone tell me if they shake their 86 they have any sort of rattle? 

   Thanks 

    Larry

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January 2, 2022 - 12:05 am
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Larry,

Here is the picture you just sent. You said the carrier drops a little when the shell is pushed in. I checked my cutaway and it does as well.
It will drop about a about a 1/16″ at the front but them hold until the shell is about half in the chamber then its pulled down to make way for the bolt. When I push on it with a finger it has some resistance and will pop back up if pushed down to the top of the magazine follower. Pushed farther down it will stay in position until I get past the mid point of the mag follower then it snaps down. Here is a link to a carrier spring on ebay.

carrier spring

Bob

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January 2, 2022 - 12:42 am
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OK I reduced the overall length of a shell to 2.70 inches by sanding down the end of the bullet ( lead tip )  rather than messing with the seating.  It made no difference .

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January 2, 2022 - 1:32 am
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  Larry, where is the rattle, in the butt stock or in the receiver? T/R

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Larry
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January 2, 2022 - 1:59 am
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T/R.   It is in the receiver,  I initially was not sure so I took the stock off to try to pin point the noise.  Figured it had to be the receiver but wanted to be sure. 

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January 2, 2022 - 7:20 am
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  Larry   You should be able to take out the spring from the rear without dismantling action.  The end of spring has a small triangle tit that clicks into notch in carrier when carrier is in up position.  This  part wears or chips off or the end breaks off spring.     Most Repo 1886s have a sliding safety, so they have to make springs that screw in from the side, rather then the bottom .  You will find an original, or new made.            Eric

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Larry
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January 2, 2022 - 4:09 pm
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Eric. Took carrier spring out and with my old eyes I see nothing obvious. I sent pictures of it to Bob asking if he would be kind enough to post them for me when he can.  Can you guys more familiar take a look and give your opinions.

   Much appreciated

      larry

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January 2, 2022 - 4:59 pm
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Larry,

Here are the pictures of your carrier spring. I just uploaded the ones that show the shape of the end bump that rides on the carrier.

P1250012.JPGImage EnlargerP1250013.JPGImage EnlargerP1250035.JPGImage Enlarger

Here is a picture of the one in my cutaway. I don’t see a issue with yours when compared to mine.

IMG_20220102_102702774-1.jpgImage Enlarger

Bob

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January 2, 2022 - 7:22 pm
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Larry said
OK I reduced the overall length of a shell to 2.70 inches by sanding down the end of the bullet ( lead tip )  rather than messing with the seating.  It made no difference .  

OK.  I have never torn down an 86 so I am no help.  How much wear does it take to make the spring not operable?

Homestead sells springs for $31.

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