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Hello All,
I caught the Winchester single shot bug from Bert and have since started to specialize in rimfire low walls. I often see rifles with lined barrels or that are sold as good candidates for lining. Relining a rimfire can cost $300 to $500 to have the work done by an experienced professional.
With all other values factors being even it would seem that a rifle with a poor bore and candidate for relining is at the bottom of the value spectrum then followed by a rifle with a relined bore worth a bit more and a rifle with a good bore at the top of the value spectrum.
My point in seeking comments, do you agree with this statement and how much would these above scenarios relate to value on a percentage basis?
Thanks for you opinions.
Hello Gib! It has certainly been quite some time since we last spoke. Sorry to hear that you now have my affliction (illness).
1. A 100% original (unmolested) low-wall .22 rim fire rifle with a sharp clean bore will be the benchmark that I use.
2. The same rifle all things identical except for a rotten unshootable bore is worth approximately 50% of the benchmark rifle.
3. If you take rifle #2 with the rotten bore and have it professionally relined, the value rises to approximately 70% – 75% of the benchmark rifle.
Now, the question that needs to be asked, is did the value gain cover the cost of the reline work? The answer is probably not, especially if you were at the high-end of your stated cost ($500). Frankly, I feel that $500 is way too steep for a .22 barrel reline. It should be closer to $350. At a cost of $350, you would break even on the value. More importantly though, you now have a fully functional rifle that can be used for its intended purpose. My vote in most cases would be to have the barrel professionally relined and pass that information along to the next owner. Relining a bad bore is not the same as swapping major parts in an attempt to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. The rifle will still have all of its factory original parts, but just with a needed repair.
My opinion, and I will look forward to what the other fellows have to say.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hi GCurtis,
You are going to get the whole spectrum of answers on this topic. There are no right or wrong opinions, just simply personal preferences.
For me, I prefer un-relined examples. If two identical rifles were sitting on a table, both priced the same and one had a bad bore and the other had a relined bore I would always buy the bad bore rifle first. In my mind, a relined bore is a repair, just like gluing a cracked stock or recrowning a barrel is a repair. Since I do not shoot most of my collectible rifles I prefer originality over a sharp shiney bore. I will leave it to the next owner to reline the rifle as they deem fit as it can always be relined at any time in the future but never un-relined.
Also, for those rifles I do shoot, I have some with ugly looking bores that retain very good accuracy even though the bore is dark and/or pitted. If you are going to reline I recommend you shoot it first as you may find it reasonably accurate even though the bore is cosmetically challenged.
That is just my opinion and it means no more or less than any of the other gentlemen here.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
It also depends on how a person relines a barrel. Some can do it and you would never know other can be spotted right away. The guys that do it cheap will buy the pencil thin liners and glue them in. You can see the liner at the end of the barrel. Those guns in my mind are worth less than a stove piped rifle. The guys that buy or make the heavy liner and weld them in at both ends and then rechamber it. Done right you will not spot it until you question the mint bore in a worn gun. If you have a shooter grade gun and putting a good bore back into it will make it work, I’d say go for it. If you have a high end gun, that would be a different story.
The problem with the thin liners is when you drill the bore out you never get it perfect. The bit might wander and you end up with a void around the liner and if you don’t fill the void with glue you might get a bulge in the bore when its fired. The guys that used the heavy liners are will not have that problem.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Just as a matter of information….
I have had several rifles relined by R.A. “Bobby” Hoyt, T/A The Freischutz Shop, in Fairfield, PA. The work that he does is excellent, and the most I have ever paid was $275. I can’t comment on shipping costs, since he is only 72 miles from me, and I always deliver and pick up whatever I take to him.
The rifles he has relined for me include:
Remington #2 Rolling Block in 32-20
Remington #1 Rolling block originally in 43 Spanish, bored out and relined to 45-70
Winchester 1892 Octagonal barrel sporting rifle in 32-20
Winchester Winder Musket originally in 22 short
1855 Harpers Ferry Rifle .58 caliber
Thanks to all for the replies.
My limited experience shows a a situation somewhere between the 2 situations described above. It really depends on the dealer, does he sell all types of guns and just happen to have a Winchester for sale or is he a collector that sells to collectors? Usually it is the case that the dealer is not the one who had the barrel relined and are just selling on items that come their way
The general type of dealer will try to get more money out of a relined gun, if it has a better bore it must be worth more right? Guns in these situations tend to sit in the rack because the price it is offered at is considered more than it is worth by many potential buyers. Collector type dealers do not place the premium on the reline job that non-collector dealer think it will bring. Of course the cowboy shooters and entry level collectors may not see the distinction and pay the premium.
The collector type dealer often will price relined guns at or near the price of a similar condition gun with a poor bore.
This is where those like me ( I do not feel relining degrades a collector piece as I try to shoot my collection whenever possible when it can be done without damaging the gun ) can find bargains in the collecting world of rim-fire Winchester single shots.
I originally went down the rim-fire road because of the lower prices as compared to the big bore high walls. In the process I have found this subtle nuance to pricing and have found a number of very nice pieces with relined bores for better than average prices.
I have never had a gun relined as I feel it is a bit too much cost for the benefit received. JWA above makes a good point, I recently picked up a 25-20 1892 with a very poor looking bore for what I considered a very bargain price. Initial thoughts were that with the price I paid I could in this case make a reline job work monetarily. First trip to the range showed it shot quite well with jacketed bullets, bonus of a double bargain in my mind. Of course now I find myself searching for the long lost flat point 87 grain 25 caliber bullet.
Cheers!
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