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Hello, I am looking for information regarding this old Winchester that is in my family.
Here is what I know.
Winchester model 1894 with a serial number 75xxx that puts in in late 1896. 25" octagon barrel. Chambered in 30 WCF. I cant see any signs of the gun being messed with. The action cycles but is rough and the trigger pulls and hammer drops.
There is a lot of surface rust all over, and either built up carbon or rust in the barrel. I have read the posts about using lubricant and brass wool to remove the rust.
Can you guys advise me on how to properly remove the rust inside and out without harming the value. Also does everything look original? Any information that I might be missing? What would the value of this be in its current condition? What if it was restored? Thanks.
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Looks original and unmessed with to me. Rear sight is rare, not familiar with the front sight. Do not touch the wood other than to put a coat of wax on it. For the metal, I put a thin film of 3-in-1 oil on the metal and then gently polish off the rust with extra fine steel wool, which also has a few drops of oil on it. I have never harmed the original blueing with this approach. As for the bore, I would use a brass brush with the bore cleaner of your choice to get out any loose surface rust. Then clean it normally. Once you have the cleaning done, you can use either Renaissance Wax or Conservators Wax and give a light coat to the entire rifle.
Do not bother restoring the rifle. Your rifle is in decent shape. Restoring it will drop the collectors value on this particular rifle.
Thank you for your input. I will do as little as possible to just remove the rust and clean the bore. I would like to take the rifle down so I can clean the action and internals. Is this not recommended? Is there a good tutorial on how to take down these old rifles without damaging anything? I am a little worried about the screws bring seized up.
Here is some more info on the rifle. S/N # is 75952.
And the barrel is 25 1/4" from the tip of the barrel to the edge of the receiver.
The serial number tells us that it is a November 1899 production Sporting Rifle. The barrel is actually 26-inches long.
Unless there is a reason to do so, you should not attempt to disassemble the action. If you do need to take it apart, apply Kroil to all of the screws you intend to remove, and use properly fitted hollow-ground screw driver tips.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The serial number tells us that it is a November 1899 production Sporting Rifle. The barrel is actually 26-inches long.Unless there is a reason to do so, you should not attempt to disassemble the action. If you do need to take it apart, apply Kroil to all of the screws you intend to remove, and use properly fitted hollow-ground screw driver tips.
Bert
Thank you. I did not mean to take the action apart, just remove the stock and fore end. I will get some kroil.
The chart I found that lead me to believe the MFG date was in 1896 I found here: http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/files/images/wfa/2012-All/2012-Articles/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year—-2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf
Thanks for the help.
The so-called “Winchester Repeating Arms website” is not really the true “WINCHESTER“. Instead, they are the Winchester division of the Browning Arms company, which is owned by the Belgian company FN (Fabrique Nationale).
Olin Industries is the owner of the original Winchester company and the trademarked “WINCHESTER” name. Olin got out of the firearms manufacturing business in early 1981, and before they did, they shipped most of the surviving records to the Cody Firearms Museum (CFM).
Olin leased the “Winchester” name to the Browning Arms Co. to use on several models that they currently manufacture. Browning (Winchester Repeating Arms) does not have any of the original Winchester factory records, and instead, they are using the erroneous information that was published by George Madis more than 40-years ago.
If you read deeply enough on the introduction page for their website, they state that the information on their website may not be accurate and that CFM may have better information. The fact of the matter is that the CFM is the only entity that can produce a factory letter, and provide the verified correct dates of manufacture.
You can purchase a factory letter for your rifle, and it will list three dates on it; (1) the serial number application date, (2) the date it was received in the warehouse from the factory, and (3) the date that is shipped (sold). The letter will also list the as built configuration, and possibly if it was ever returned for repair or rework.
The reason that I corrected your original date of manufacture is because there is a very important distinction between the year 1896 and the year 1899. Specifically, all firearms manufactured on or before December 31st, 1898 are classified as "Antique" by federal regulations. Those that were manufactured on or after January 1st, 1899 are classified as "modern", and are subject to a different (more restrictive) set of regulations.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Rooster said
… I did not mean to take the action apart, just remove the stock and fore end.
I would not advise removing the wood, especially the fore end. There is too much potential for a slipped screwdriver, or scratching the mag tube when it is being withdrawn through the front magazine hanger. Also, the front hanger is not a dovetail, you need to rotate it and slide it out. If you absolutely have to take out a screw, Bert has given solid advice about hollow ground screwdriver blades.
Thank you guys for all the help. Are there any features that stand out? Sights? Or the roll marks on the lever and action?
Also what value would you place on this rifle? I would never sell it and hopefully it will become mine and I can pass it onto my son. But right now my out of state uncle owns it (but Cannot legally own it). I just rescued it from years of sitting in my dad’s humid basement. I plan to clean it up and let it live in my safe until I hear different. But I would like to give my dad and uncle an idea of its value. Thanks.
The folding rear sight is definitely unusual and rare. The front sight is not standard either, but I don’t know what it is.
As for value, given that is looks like no one has messed with it, coupled with its condition, in Canada would think $900 to $1,200. There are other fellows on this board, however, that can give a much more accurate estimate.
I am not an expert on sights by a long shot but, it just looks like a standard Winchester sporting front sight, (some times listed as 21 series) and they show up with and with out the set screw.
Paul
What is rare about the rear sight? It looks like a 3 leaf but only has 2? The front sight looks like many Ive seen on Winchester rifles
Rex said
What is rare about the rear sight? It looks like a 3 leaf but only has 2? The front sight looks like many Ive seen on Winchester rifles
Maybe it is not rare. It is just that I’ve seen a lot of Model 1894’s up here in Canada and never seen a folding two-leaf rear sight on one.
January 26, 2011
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The rear sight is the 3 leaf express that’s found on many 1894’s. It is shown in the middle leaf position in the photo. The first and second leafs hinge together at 90 deg., and the third leaf is independent. Not rare from what I’ve seen, but certainly less common than the standard sporting rear variations.
~Gary~
Anybody else care to speculate on the value? Just curious.
January 26, 2011
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I think Kirk was in the ball park with his 900-1200 estimate. Personally, I wouldn’t be interested over $1000 but you sure could come across someone that would pay much more. Its a nice, honest example of an 1894 sporting rifle that has not been abused or altered.
~Gary~
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