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1886 rebuild help
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February 23, 2022 - 8:40 am
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I got what I considered to be a good deal on a fully functional 1890 vintage 1886 action with worn out barrel.

 

I’ve ordered a bunch of parts from Taylor firearms in the hope that I can make them work (mag tube and components, cartridge stop and carriage spring) and a set of external screws from homestead but I still need a good option for a barrel and furniture. I don’t want the rifle to look half new and half antique but if that’s what needs to be done while I wait for other parts to come along then that’s what I’ll do.

I’ve considered having the old barrel sleeved but it was cut down to 19 inches and I dont really want to commit a good amount of money into a barrel that has been pretty abused.

 

Serial number is 47097 which is where I got the manufacture date from. I’d like to make it factory but I’d need a cody letter for that I suppose and it would add more time.

 

Any advice or direction would be greatly appreciated.

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February 23, 2022 - 6:55 pm
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The “new” mag tube will not look like the rest of the gun.  If you want this to look old factory you need a parts gun.

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February 24, 2022 - 7:12 am
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I agree. But the only thing on ebay is a cut up buttstock and a 32 round barrel, there are no mag tube available. And I’m still not even sure what the final size of the tube will be. I guess Cody or some fantastic deal will determine that.

 

But they emailed me today to say they were out of stock on tubes and carrier springs too so I guess the point is mute for now.

 

I guess you could say I have two goals. Shoot the rifle in some configuration by summer and rebuild it properly on a slower schedule as parts become available. 

 

Given the parts shortage is it unreasonable to assume the parts I use this year will retain some value once exchanged for proper parts?

 

What are my chances of finding a shootable octagonal barrel in a decent Caliber that isn’t grossly inflated in price? Are winchesterbarrels.com any good?

 

I’m sorry for so many questions I’ve learned so much just snooping around and I really feel like this is the go to place for this kind of information 

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February 24, 2022 - 5:47 pm
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You really need to step back and consider all of the costs to rebuild what you have and then decide if buying another gun is a better approach. I would suggest the latter.  A mix of old and new just won’t look right and the cost of refinishing everything is very expensive.

I took a look at the barrel supplier and they look good in the pictures.  I wish I knew who the owner of the business is?

Save yourself the pain and expense and buy a complete gun that you can live with.

Find a collector gun show near you and go look at the guns and prices.  If you let us know what state you live in we can tell you where the closest shows may be.

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February 24, 2022 - 6:44 pm
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Chuck is spot on, part out your “good deal” and apply your proceeds to a complete original gun. You will be pleasantly surprised what the sum of your total parts will be if indeed you got a great deal on your partial rifle. 86 parts sell quickly and at premium prices………

 

Erin

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February 24, 2022 - 7:52 pm
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Several years ago Taylor Machine relined an 1892 for me. John noticed the octagonal barrel had been cut down to 23 inches and offered to add the missing inch back onto the barrel while he was relining it. I’m pretty sure this would involve some degree of refinishing but I didn’t pursue it. Homestead has mag tubes; used and reproduction, from time to time. It will never again be “factory” but it could be a nice enough shooter if you want to pursue it.

 

Mike

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February 25, 2022 - 2:12 am
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Thank you so much for the time you have all taken to help me out. I’m in Los Angeles so gun shows and old parts are fairly hard to come by.

The reciever cost me 250 which seemed like a steal to me just given the number of serviceable parts. 

I expect the process of proper restoration to be long with lots of searching and maybe even a few wrong turns and that’s why I thought building a shooter for now would satisfy my urge to shoot a big bore lever gun and give me the patience I need.

My math has me at about 700 dollars for a frankenrifle not including a barrel. 

The 33 Caliber blue barrel is still under 100 bucks on ebay. It would get the rifle shooting for around 800 bucks and that really can’t be beat that I know of.

Then as time goes by I’ll buy period correct furniture, barrel and tube and even if I sell the remade stuff for half price I only lose maybe 200 dollars to scratch the itch.

Unless I’m totally missing something which I why I ask here. You guys are way better at this than me and if I’m way off I’ll take the advice and listen 

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February 25, 2022 - 5:59 pm
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The best gun shows for you are in Vegas next January and multiple times a year in Reno.  Reno has 2 people putting on collectable gun shows.  Lou Fascio, Big Reno show has events coming up in April, August and November.  Scott Tarbel’s show, New Frontier, is in March.

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February 27, 2022 - 7:18 am
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Thank you again for the information. I will definitely try to get out to one of those shows. 

Since nobody had any experience with winchesterbarrels.com I went ahead and emailed them asking for pictures of the antique patina finish they advertise. I received an email within a day but only to say that they did not have pictures of the antique patina finish on that computer but they would email me later with the images. That was several days ago and they have not responded since. 

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February 27, 2022 - 5:23 pm
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Nicholas, please find out who owns this company.  We may know the name. 

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February 27, 2022 - 6:15 pm
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20220222_122943.jpgImage Enlarger20220224_213318.jpgImage Enlarger20220222_123016.jpgImage EnlargerI can tell you from the response I received that the email is hangf[email protected] and the name attached is Bob Williams. 

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February 28, 2022 - 3:36 pm
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Nick,

If this was mine, I would keep it as is and use it as a wall hangar.  It’s certainly seen some hard use.  It’s got a lot of character just the way it is.  

Your mileage may vary…

I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

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February 28, 2022 - 5:04 pm
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I think it’s lived a fantastic life. The most pitted part is the finger lever and that’s because someone carried this gun constantly. It was their companion and kept them safe through God knows what. 

I’ve asked Taylor for a quote on repairing the original barrel. I’ll maybe leave it the 20 inches because it’s the perfect length to hold one handed and let swing at your side without touching the ground.

I understand your the interest in leaving the poor ol girl the hell alone. But i just want to repair some of the neglect. I don’t want to change who she is or was.

 

As you can see, he cared enough to mark his barrel but not enough to have dovetails done properly. But the death of the barrel didn’t come until years later when someone stuffed a pencil (70s-80s vintage advertising pencil) down the barrel and left it for me to find decade’s later. The two worst parts of the bore line up to the beginning and the end of the pencil.

 

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March 2, 2022 - 4:10 pm
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I have received a tremendous amount of help and advice here and i thank every single person who has stopped and spent time to talk to me about my old rifle.

I haven’t had a response here in a couple of days and while that isn’t a very long length of time I can’t help but feel some people think rebuilding this rifle is a waste of money and effort.

I’d like to preemptively address those concerns.

I’ve spent far more money and time building black rifles with useless overpriced parts that have no purpose in civilian life. I spend the money shoot the weapon a couple times and then sell it because it has no practical use.

I dont see the problem in spending less money on a project with history and frankly more significance than just about any black rifle out there. 

If you believe every gun is only useful for its collector value then your buying in to the narrative that guns are not useful tools and that will only help the people who want to make laws banning guns. 

I’m from Los Angeles but before that the family came from a tiny town I’m the mountains of Northern New Mexico been there for hundreds of years. I understand and value the history of the west and I dont see it as a shiny rifle that never saw use. The west was wild rough and dangerous and when you were done your rifle may have looked like this.

These are my opinions on the subject and they may be wrong but I had to share.

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March 2, 2022 - 8:30 pm
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Nick said
I have received a tremendous amount of help and advice here and i thank every single person who has stopped and spent time to talk to me about my old rifle.

I haven’t had a response here in a couple of days and while that isn’t a very long length of time I can’t help but feel some people think rebuilding this rifle is a waste of money and effort.

I’d like to preemptively address those concerns.

I’ve spent far more money and time building black rifles with useless overpriced parts that have no purpose in civilian life. I spend the money shoot the weapon a couple times and then sell it because it has no practical use.

I dont see the problem in spending less money on a project with history and frankly more significance than just about any black rifle out there. 

If you believe every gun is only useful for its collector value then your buying in to the narrative that guns are not useful tools and that will only help the people who want to make laws banning guns. 

I’m from Los Angeles but before that the family came from a tiny town I’m the mountains of Northern New Mexico been there for hundreds of years. I understand and value the history of the west and I dont see it as a shiny rifle that never saw use. The west was wild rough and dangerous and when you were done your rifle may have looked like this.

These are my opinions on the subject and they may be wrong but I had to share.  

Nick, the first rule of collecting is to collect what you like.  We were just trying to save you some money.  I shoot a couple of long range target guns at Angeles Shooting Range every Tuesday.  Sometimes I shoot some of my old Winchesters.  I disagree that black guns don’t have a civilian use.  I have 2 and I have fun shooting them at the range.  At my age I don’t hunt much but I could see myself using an AR on the right hunt or if I were younger in a match.  Sometimes I have bought guns just to stick my middle finger at the non gunners.

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March 2, 2022 - 10:42 pm
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I understand and appreciate all the advice. It makes good financial sense and it’s what smart money would do. Please understand, I have no desire to argue fight or complain. 

I have been helped by smart men who know a great deal about these weapons, their construction and their financial value.

I understand that I could have a nicer looking more accurate possibly more reliable firearm for not too much more money.

But it will never carry the same weight of history. 

It will never be depended on for safety and survival in the way this rifle once was.

I was too hard on black rifles. I meant to say that certain parts or configurations don’t easily lend themselves to hunting or self defense purposes but they are fantastic creations with brilliant engineering. 

I apologize to anyone I offended I just wanted to defend rifles that look how I feel most days, old and broken in a fee places but with lots of fight left

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March 5, 2022 - 7:05 pm
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We’re not dead yet

 

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March 26, 2022 - 12:14 am
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I’ve gotten ahold of a 40-82 barrel that’s in shootable but poor condition. It took the slightest amount of fitting but is mounted and headspaces well.The cost was minimal (75 shipped)  it should serve well enough to test the fit and function of the rest of the rifle while I wait for a barrel and I truly desire. I also purchased 45-90 cases to resize to 40-82 as I’ve seen recommended. 

I contacted winchesterbarrels.com again (twice). I had heard nothing bad and a fee good reference on other forums so I tried. I haven’t had much luck.

I lowered my expectations to a simple 45-70 octagon barrel with no finish. The type they describe as being “in stock ” and ready to ship. I have not received a response since I made the request. 

I’ll probably wind up with 2 magazine tubes of different lengths as well as multiple barrels and a couple more miscellaneous parts but I am still well under 1000 dollars and I’m confident this rifle will serve again in the near future. 

I do not regret defending this rifle. I honestly feel image has creeped far too deep into firearms culture and it saddens me.

But i do regret any offense I made to anyone who has an opinion different from my own. 

I will continue to post updates when I feel there is enough news to merit typing about. 

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March 26, 2022 - 11:28 pm
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Nick –

Your comments haven’t offended me and I doubt they’ve offended anyone here in the slightest.  You’re working on a project you are enjoying and you have enthusiasm and passion for it.  To me, the fact you are person likely much younger than me, and your project involves an old Winchester makes me happy.  I do understand your passion for not giving up on your rifle. 

Remember this is the internet and we are looking at photos.  In other words, none of are there to hold your rifle in our hands as you do.  You feel your rifle is like a living and breathing entity.  Were I to hold it in my hands I would probably feel some of that to.  But, as I suggested, we are relating to each other in the, “virtual” world.  One of the aspects I enjoy the most about my pieces is that they are solid, durable, enduring objects.  I can feel some of their history when I look at them, but more so when I handle them.

Keep the faith.

Steve

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March 27, 2022 - 6:16 pm
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I agree with Steve.  Do what you want and have fun.  My offer still stands.  Come to Angeles on a Tuesday and shoot some old guns.

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