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November 19, 2006
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Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
I don’t much about the history but I suspect the military was very interested in the velocities and lower trajectories that could be obtained with the 150 grain bullet in the .30-06.
September 22, 2011
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Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
Plus, a 150 grain bullet is comfortable to shoot. I loaded up some loads using 220 grain bullets for my Husqvrna and the recoil certainly got your attention!
May 22, 2024
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We got shot to pieces in the various Central American Wars by the 7×57, that was clip fed and flat shooting, thus the svery short lifespan of the Springfield Trapdoor, and the Germans had reduced the bullet weight (i forget exactly weight changes) of the 8mm Mauser, to a better flatter shooting Spitzer Bullet. Way I understood history of it, from the onset & planning, a 220gr bulket in the 30-03 was going to be our Service Rifle. But the we’d already followed the Germans 1st play on everything else, so a lighter- flatter shooting cartridge was the obvious choice! Plus our military already aware of less recoil-better accuracy, so the change to the 03 30-06 was the obvious winner, and wisely so! Our military established a 15lb max felt recoil somewhere along the line, i don’t know if it was before or after all this?
There was already a large number, how many? 03’s made in 30-03 that were brought back and rechambered to 30-06 then put back into service. All this my memory and its getting very foggy, so feel free anyone to correct my wrongs!
November 7, 2015
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I think the 30US, 30-03 and 30-06 story illustrates the development of early smokeless military cartridges and is a story worth reading and studying. The versatility of the 30-06 is very remarkable as well. The pine board tests don’t tell us much about performance on game, especially with the modern bullets used today. They did illustrate the value of a long, heavy bullet at moderate velocities, pretty much a dead subject for today’s North American hunters until the 6mm was re-discovered. It’s remarkable how they were able to understand and utilize the laws of physics without the benefit of semiconductors.
Mike
March 6, 2011
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Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
So what. We are discussing hunting big game, using 220 grain SP ammo, not military usage.
November 7, 2015
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wolfbait said
Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
So what. We are discussing hunting big game, using 220 grain SP ammo, not military usage.
Wolfbait-
Maybe you’ll find the text above the 1905 chart in Bert’s #10 post enlightening. There has been a bit of thread drift but I thought we were discussing relative penetration.
Mike
Mike
April 15, 2005
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wolfbait said
Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
So what. We are discussing hunting big game, using 220 grain SP ammo, not military usage.
So, when confronted with factual information, your response is a petty minded “So what”… no surprise. You once again parade your ignorance out for all to see.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 6, 2011
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Bert H. said
wolfbait said
Bert H. said
wolfbait said
The 06 was loaded with 220 grain bullets from it’s inception, as shown in the charts.
Only because the Military was still working out the kinks for the 150-grain bullet load. If you actually knew something about the history of the 30-06 cartridge development, and the specific reason why the U.S. Army made the change from the 30-03 Gov’t cartridge to the 30-06 Gov’t cartridge, you would know that it was not intended to shoot a 220-grain bullet. The 150-gr bullet & load was quickly worked out and became the standard for the U.S. Army.
Bert
So what. We are discussing hunting big game, using 220 grain SP ammo, not military usage.
So, when confronted with factual information, your response is a petty minded “So what”… no surprise. You once again parade your ignorance out for all to see.
Nice response. We were discussing the use of 220 grain SP bullets in the 30-40 and 30-06 on big game like Elk. And you brought up completely irrelevant military usage with FMJ bullets. Everyone should chose a cartridge they feel is proper for the type of big game they are hunting.
May 22, 2024
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15th Rd, Ding Ding Ding, I hope! I aint going back rereading, idk, maybe I led some this on in some way, I sure hope not! As to thread drift, wel I started, but I have no problem whatsoever with that because beneficial intent to the thread was the purpose, and all was good, IMO!
But i did make it know the comment of Whelen’s praise of the 30-40 Craig towards Elk Hunting Cartridge excellence! I believe this, ive read it before in other articles! I can’t say, im no elk hunter, but its mostly unanimous the elk being the toughest of the deer species to put down! And Whelen is the 30-06 Guru! Al he’s saying was, more often than not, you can’t kill an elk any quicker or deader with little or no tracking, than he’s witnessed with the 30-40 Krag!
Then Burt verified it completely, from experience, his own good results with the Krag! And i think he said or gave hint, “At His Hunting Ranges”! Thats the key issue! I perceive it like this, cause im a get close for a good shot kinda hunter, even if only for Whitetail!
Wolfbait was emphasizing his opinion that the 30-06 with the 220gr bullet should be better! Well, its maybe known as the top elk Cartridge today! But a big reason is Longer Range! Many today trying to shoot game from way to far, I believe this is often discussed problem of today! But this wasn’t brought up, but just my opinion from what i know of here with the 30-06 on WT. But yes, im sure the 220gr bullet in an 06 would be great! But at the effective ranges its meant for, but no more than the 30-40!
Just my way thinking, if im going elk hunting, I have 3 30-06, I’d grab one, but I’d liad it with a good 180gr, Nosler Partition probably hard to beat!
In other words, let each gave his own, let it go at that, both are right for their preferred use!
Sum Total, I have no problem believing Whelen & Burt! In fact I’d love to have a Krag in 30-40, and elk to hunt em with, but it’s dont, dream on! And i have no doubt thinking a 30-06 with 220gr would kill em dead too! But again, from what i know my own 06 experience? Id liad it with 180gr, and I got plenty Rem CL n Win PP to do that already. All I need is Elk!
So we have a draw! No one rifle & Cartridge is Superior at all ranges, its the Man holding it, putting boots on ground, doing it his way, that’s makes his choice the best!
Peace i hope!
March 6, 2011
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OK, one more thing before I check out. I repeatedly said the 30-40 was a good cartridge. Some people here are responding (and getting very emotional) as though I said the 30-40 was inadequate for Elk hunting. Not so. Whelen said the 30-40 was a good Elk cartridge, which it is. He never said it was superior to the 30-06, 348, or 375, which it is not. I am certain many Elk have been shot dead with well placed shots with a 30-30. Many people hunt with cartridges that they are emotionally drawn to. I know guys who hunt with 25-35s, 35 Remingtons, and black powder rifles. May not be the best choices, but prove adequate for them. But when comparing cartridges of equal caliber, the ballistics of each cartridge tell the tale.
This is just a forum where guys with a similar interest exchange ideas. I like hearing other peoples opinions and experiences. But anecdotal information does not refute the facts.
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