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Winchester cartridge box info
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March 1, 2023 - 8:49 pm
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I have a box of Winchester  .38 CLMR Cartridges for the 1885 Colt Lightning, can anybody tell me what year Winchester started using the CLMR call out on their .44,.38 and .32 boxes for the Lightning and what year they ceased using it?

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March 1, 2023 - 10:07 pm
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I first see the .38 Colt’s New Lightning Magazine Rifle in the February 1895 catalog (page 112).  It’s the same for the other cartridges you mention.  Sorry, I don’t know when they stopped listing it.  I don’t have a complete set of catalogs.

I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder

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March 1, 2023 - 10:25 pm
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Cartridges and original vintage boxes are of interest to me but not an area of expertise.  Even though I have a Colt Lightning .38 carbine, I was not aware that Winchester made cartridges marked specifically for Colt magazine rifles.  Is there any difference between this cartridge and the Winchester .38 WCF?  I know I use the same  .38-40 cartridges in my Colt, various M1892 Winchesters and various M1894 Marlins.

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March 1, 2023 - 11:22 pm
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steve004 said
Cartridges and original vintage boxes are of interest to me but not an area of expertise.  Even though I have a Colt Lightning .38 carbine, I was not aware that Winchester made cartridges marked specifically for Colt magazine rifles.  Is there any difference between this cartridge and the Winchester .38 WCF?  I know I use the same  .38-40 cartridges in my Colt, various M1892 Winchesters and various M1894 Marlins.

  

See the cut from the February 1895 catalog.  To my knowledge, there is no difference in .38 WCF and .38 CLMR.  The earlier .38 WCF cartridge is listed in the main section.  These were new cartridge listings on the last page of the catalog.  Note that the Marlin variant called the .38-40 Marlin safety.  Same, same!  I think it was all marketing magic and Colt and Marlin not wanting to share sunshine with Winchester.  

What is interesting to me is that the Marlin nomenclature is used today.  What is up with that?  

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March 1, 2023 - 11:40 pm
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Was there a demand back then because Marlin and Colt owners wanted to buy a box of cartridges that matched the cartridge stamping on the barrels of their rifles?

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March 2, 2023 - 3:40 pm
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There is no difference between the .38 WCF and the .38 CLMR.  Only a marketing ploy on Winchesters part.

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March 2, 2023 - 4:44 pm
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win4575 said
There is no difference between the .38 WCF and the .38 CLMR.  Only a marketing ploy on Winchesters part.

  

Cartridges were big business for Winchester – we know they wanted to sell them – and the marketing guys were expected to come up with ideas to earn their pay.

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March 2, 2023 - 5:36 pm
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Like others have said Medium frame Colt’s used the same ammo as the 73 or 92.  But, when it comes to the Large frames it is another story all together.  All Large frames could be shot with a Winchester cartridge but you have to careful.  Especially with the 45-85-285.  My guess is that Colt did not want to reference any of the Winchester calibers. 

According to Michael Kelly the CLMR 45-85 is the same as the Marlin/Bullard round.

Winchester head stamps can be found in 2 versions that will fit the CLMR 45-85-285.  The 3 top ones fit the Colt.

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