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Like the title asks – why do “antique” guns bring more $? (According to what I’ve been reading.)
Is it simply due to the fact it’s not considered a firearm and doesn’t need an FFL transfer? Ease of transfer?
I’ve found most sellers won’t ship directly to me even if I show them the law and show them gun meets the definition. In fact of three “antiques” I’ve purchased NONE of them would ship direct to me despite a clear understanding of the law. They still insist on shipping to my FFL. It’s quite frustrating because I’ve had FFLs actually add wear and tear because they don’t care about handling. (I should add that these are sub $2k guns not the “real collectible” guns most of you have.)
I know that obviously an “antique” will be older, but let’s say we have one gun that’s an antique and another gun, its twin in every way, but it was made a year later making it a ”firearm.” Given the guns are identical in every way expect one is a year older and it qualifies as an antique. In this scenario how much more desirable is the antique?
(I understand there’s going to be a lot of “depends” so try to imagine the scenario as close to equal as possible.)
Thanks in advance.
Okay I’ll bite!
One take for sure is that, for many of us older, Collectors we enjoy the historical value in the Antique rifles, and you have to remember, many of us grew up watching cowboy movies on television, and dreaming, and even fantasizing about the cowboy way. Especially, if you we’re from back East and not from the far expansive West. We didn’t grow up with the internet, and I phones, etc…..Antique classification being pre-1898, and the evolution from black powder to smokeless powder comes into play, also. There’s many variables to you’re question as many more qualified collectors will weigh in I’m sure.
As far as the antique gun being shipped to an FFL, well that makes no sense to me at all! IMO! I’ve shipped and had many shipped to me without that issue, as I think with all the shipping problems today and the lack of caring, I guess people are just covering their butts in one way of thinking.
Anthony
azscooby said
Like the title asks – why do “antique” guns bring more $? (According to what I’ve been reading.)
Because they are worth more.
Federal laws in most cases do not apply to pre-1899 guns and that was a big part of the premium price. Now in some states the laws applies to all guns making it hard and expensive to transfer ownership especially across state lines. When I go to a national gun show I have to know that state’s laws and my state laws to determine how I handle the transfer. In the case of an antique gun it many times gets simple. Also the transportation of an antique gun is a little easier in some circumstances.
As Anthony stated my generation was raised on cowboy and Indian shows. When I pick up an antique Colt or Winchester I can feel the history. I look at the gun and can imagine how and where it was used. If your lucky many times these old guns come with history, that’s not to say that the 1899 gun does not have history but in general they missed the cowboy and Indian period of history. I like antique guns and I’m not alone. T/R
Online
You will always have sellers that have their preference to how they ship guns. Its their right to decide who and how they ship. It could be that they feel they are covering their butt if it goes through a FFL and then the FFL takes on the responsibility of making sure the buyer is legally able to buy a gun. It could also be an issue the shippers not wanting to ship a gun from a individual were as if it being shipped by a FFL they feel it checks a box and they are off the hook. I always consider when I go to sell the gun, I can ship it direct to the buyer. I would still have to get the shipper to accept it but since its a antique I don’t tell them what I’m shipping because its not a gun in the eyes of the law. The only concern I would have is if your shipping to a left wing state that is controlling gun purchases. Another reason a antique is more valuable is I can take the gun to a gun show across state lines and sell it with no hassle.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
How does one insure a valuable gun if they don’t tell the shipper what’s in the box?
If you can’t convince them, confuse them
Insuring a gun is not a cut and dried thing. You have to read the fine print on the insurance since some cap the insurance value on guns. You could pay for $10.000 of insurance and they wouldn’t payout the full amount. The most common damage to long guns is a broken stock and if want to collect on it they keep the gun and pay you. Several people I know don’t insure because its a waste of money. The FFL will probably have their own insurance that cover what they ship which is a lot cheaper.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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Antiques aren’t a big deal with me as I have a C&R to facilitate transfer of eligible firearms. One reason I got the FFL is because a dealer at my first Cody show sold me an antique Springfield but insisted on shipping it to an FFL in my home state. I wasn’t up on the applicable laws at that time so I let it slide. Then he “forgot” to ship the bayonet with the rifle. I know my favorite big box gun store does 4473’s on all firearms, including antiques. With the convoluted questions on the recent 4473’s I’m tempted to see if they’ll let me use my C&R on eligible purchases. OTOH I went to an “Estate” auction once where EVERY firearm was an antique. Not every seller or even FFL understands the laws exempting antiques from transfer paperwork. If your seller bought the gun using his FFL and entered it in his book he would probably be better off treating it as a firearm.
Mike
The main reason I have antiques is they are the era I prefer. Even in Kalifornia I can receive and sell with no issues. But selling is not what I like to do. One of the best things I can tell you to do is make a great association with your local gun store or a FFL. I have copies of 2 different FFL’s I can use for shipping issues and these guys don’t try to rip me off for transfers because I do a lot of business with them.
November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
The main reason I have antiques is they are the era I prefer. Even in Kalifornia I can receive and sell with no issues. But selling is not what I like to do. One of the best things I can tell you to do is make a great association with your local gun store or a FFL. I have copies of 2 different FFL’s I can use for shipping issues and these guys don’t try to rip me off for transfers because I do a lot of business with them.
Amen! Support your local gun store while/if you can. Some will even call if they are offered a gun you may be interested in. I’ve had no luck doing that at a big box store where I’ve spent a pile of money.
The attraction I have to the antique era of Winchester is the huge strides in technology. In forty short years we went from percussion ignition, black powder and lead projectiles to center fire cartridges, smokeless powder and jacketed projectiles with all the performance enhancements those changes made possible. Of more interest to most of us is the introduction of many enduring firearms designs that are still with us today. The folks who helped guide this evolution were often quite remarkable as well. I don’t think there’s a more interesting time period in Winchester (and firearms in general) history than the last 40 years of the 19th century.
Mike
Thanks for all the great replies. I never thought about the state to state buying/selling guns while traveling, and it makes complete sense.
I also understand that the FFL’s just want to cover their @ss. I’m also very surprised every time I run into a LGS or FFL who just has no idea of the laws. I understand the firearm laws can be extremely convoluded and tricky, but it’s literally their job to know.
I still laugh at how naive I was as a young guy shopping for a car in the late 90’s. I just assumed the “salesman” who was selling something would know the basics about the items he was selling. Big time “ah ha” or “wow” moment when I found out most car “salesman” know very little about the cars they’re selling. Their job isn’t to know about cars, it’s about selling cars.
azscooby said
Thanks for all the great replies. I never thought about the state to state buying/selling guns while traveling, and it makes complete sense.I also understand that the FFL’s just want to cover their @ss. I’m also very surprised every time I run into a LGS or FFL who just has no idea of the laws. I understand the firearm laws can be extremely convoluded and tricky, but it’s literally their job to know.
I still laugh at how naive I was as a young guy shopping for a car in the late 90’s. I just assumed the “salesman” who was selling something would know the basics about the items he was selling. Big time “ah ha” or “wow” moment when I found out most car “salesman” know very little about the cars they’re selling. Their job isn’t to know about cars, it’s about selling cars.
FFl’s/dealers just can’t keep up with all the different state laws. That is why they want to go FFL to FFL.
My wife used to argue with me about salesmen. I used to joke that car salesmen were selling shoes the week before. While sitting in the showroom at a local car dealership a hairdresser supply salesman walked up to my wife because he used to sell her supplies. He was now selling cars. A good salesman can sell anything. She doesn’t argue with me anymore. At least not about salesmen.
1873man said
Insuring a gun is not a cut and dried thing. You have to read the fine print on the insurance since some cap the insurance value on guns. You could pay for $10.000 of insurance and they wouldn’t payout the full amount. The most common damage to long guns is a broken stock and if want to collect on it they keep the gun and pay you. Several people I know don’t insure because its a waste of money. The FFL will probably have their own insurance that cover what they ship which is a lot cheaper.Bob
I sure agree with this. A lot of people believe that if you buy $10,000 in insurance, you have $10,000 in insurance. You don’t.
Let me add, if a collector is a fan of the .33 WCF or the .32 Special, you’re not going to own antique rifles.
November 7, 2015
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steve004 said
Let me add, if a collector is a fan of the .33 WCF or the .32 Special, you’re not going to own antique rifles.
Thanks, Steve. It’s not every day we get to think of the 32WS and the 33WCF as modern cartridges.
Mike
steve004 said
Let me add, if a collector is a fan of the .33 WCF or the .32 Special, you’re not going to own antique rifles.
Right-o Steve. Give’s Bert’s sliding 100 year antique scale much more credence.
steve004 said
Let me add, if a collector is a fan of the .33 WCF or the .32 Special, you’re not going to own antique rifles.
Let’s add the 35 WCF and 405 WCF to that list…
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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