I haven’t seen any reference to a S.S. barrel on a 73.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
In Roger Rules book on page 28 he paraphrase’s a Winchester pocket handbook for the model 54 on the stainless barrel option, “It resists the cutting action of hot gases. It possesses strength and toughness fully equal to the famous Winchester nickelsteel. It gives much longer life to your gun.”
On page 22 and 23 the name “Winchester Proof- Steel” was coined in about 1932 to be used on any alloy they deemed the finest at the time. Good read, what does it mean? Maybe Winchester Proof-Steel changed over time? If so then as time went on the steel got better? T/R
TR said
In Roger Rules book on page 28 he paraphrase’s a Winchester pocket handbook for the model 54 on the stainless barrel option, “It resists the cutting action of hot gases. It possesses strength and toughness fully equal to the famous Winchester nickelsteel. It gives much longer life to your gun.”On page 22 and 23 the name “Winchester Proof- Steel” was coined in about 1932 to be used on any alloy they deemed the finest at the time. Good read, what does it mean? Maybe Winchester Proof-Steel changed over time? If so then as time went on the steel got better? T/R
There was also a brief period where they made, “extra steel” barrels. I don’t know the details of exactly what this steel was.
TR said
In Roger Rules book on page 28 he paraphrase’s a Winchester pocket handbook for the model 54 on the stainless barrel option, “It resists the cutting action of hot gases. It possesses strength and toughness fully equal to the famous Winchester nickelsteel. It gives much longer life to your gun.”On page 22 and 23 the name “Winchester Proof- Steel” was coined in about 1932 to be used on any alloy they deemed the finest at the time. Good read, what does it mean? Maybe Winchester Proof-Steel changed over time? If so then as time went on the steel got better? T/R
It is my understanding that the CMS (Proof Steel) alloy is stronger and more durable than the older Nickel Steel, and to the best of my knowledge it was been used since early 1932 with no changes to the alloy.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
1873man said
I haven’t seen any reference to a S.S. barrel on a 73.Bob
Madis makes the statement:
“Many of the announcements and advertisements offered stainless steel barrels for any model of Winchester, old or new, but according to all records these barrels for the more inexpensive single shot rifles and shotguns were not made.”
If they were offering stainless steel barrels and that included for old rifles, considering they made 720,000 Model 1873’s, I would suspect they were prepared to have a customer or two send their rifle in for one.
Bert H. said
28 gauge said
Are stainless steel barrels any stronger than a nickel steel or a Winchester proof steel barrel?
While I do not positively have the answer to this question, I suspect they are not.
That was my thought as well.From what I understand ,the big reason for stainless steel barrels ,was for their resistance to rusting.
I am going to have to speculate all day long on this one.
“Special Steel” barrels technically were not needed for low pressure cartridges such as the 44-40 normal loads and even the 44-40 W.H.V. loads. This is the case with all “Low-Pressure” designated cartridge of the time….even those black powder loads.
Aside from the 94’era 30-30, the issue really seems to get popular in old publications-1894 to 1920-magazines and books with the 32-40 and 38-55 variants. Seldom was there a concern with blowing up a black powder barrel when using low-pressure loads. The concern was wearing out the bore. However, do not confuse this with shooting a too high of a particular pressure for a particular firearm.
The transition from low-pressure to high-pressure and low-velocity to high-velocity is were the talk was about Special Steel barrels. Namely the 38-55 black powder barrels and high-power smokeless loads barrels.
First, I’d like to start out with this 1902 article;
Western Field The Sportsman’s Magazine of the West · Volume 1 Another great explanation from 1902. Not only is this nearly ten years after the introduction of smokeless powder, it is also the beginning of the new “High Velocity” fad that, as well as smokeless powder itself, many misunderstand even today.
Below are two examples of misunderstanding what is safe, and what is not safe for your particular black powder firearm. By 1905, Smokeless Powders were divided in two classes, low and high pressure. The first named being mostly used in old black powder cartridges the latter for cartridges of the military type. Aside from black powder; most just getting over the fact that the new smokeless powder was also divided into two classes, “bulk for bulk” and “dense”, both equaling the strength of a black powder charge but one being bulk for bulk, and one being much less than bulk….but yet both safe for black powder firearms. Generally for rifles, anything larger than .32 cal. was basically a bulk for bulk while anything smaller than a .32 cal. was a less bulk for bulk, or what was called “dense”. Aside from shooting jacketed bullets and large quantities of smokeless shots fired in the soft steel barrels, smokeless powder was plenty safe for use in black powder arms. The concerns below involve high pressure vs low pressure and the confusion thereof. Thus, by early 1900’s definitions, we must divide these pressures into at least two groups.
Smokeless Powder Pressure Classes;
- Low Pressure – anything below, say…30,000cup
- High Pressure – anything above, say…30,000cup
Just because it may say low pressure doesn’t mean it is safe for the weaker barrels…but at the same time, smokeless powder itself is not unsafe to use in soft steel BP barrels either.
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Then further down the book we find this High Velocity/Low Pressure data while speaking about special sights…
“These cartridges are especially designed for use in rifles originally built to use black powder only.”
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With that said, there is why we need to understand what is meant by High Pressure vs Low Pressure, regardless of high velocity or low velocity….as well as…the reason for the switch from soft steel to special steel.
Also, keep in mind that even though this 1902 information is nearly ten years into using smokeless powder, the High Velocity-Low Pressure is a another new Nomenclature!
Second is this 1906 article from your favorite Mr. Whelen regarding manufacture costs… (I love the 44-40 remark by Winchester)
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Third, I’d like to touch on what was considered expected accuracy from some of these rifles…again from your favorite Mr Whelen;
For the past several years, through my experiences, I began to settle on ten shot groups with the 44-40. I felt it better tells the story of true accuracy rather than the typical three shot groups popular today. I also settled on certain groups being about the best of the best for this cartridge at different ranges.
Recently I came across vintage 1920’s information that is somewhat the same along the groups achieved at the distances used.
I came up with my consistent best which would be 4″ at 25 yards with a revolver, (scoped) 3.5″ at 100 yards with a rifle, 9″ at 200 yards and 29 of 37 shots inside 14″ at nearly 300 yards.
Seems to be fairly consistent with this 1920 information. Thought some of these other cartridges may be of interest to some of you.
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also…
SOME NEW MARLIN DEPARTURES.
Interesting announcement comes from The Marlin Fire Arms Co., New Haven, Conn. concerning a new line of goods the company is marketing this season, which will attract wide attention among a large class of sportsmen and lovers of the rifle.
The company is now arranging a line of their famous repeating rifles, Model 1893, to be known among the trade Grade “B”. These rifles will be in every respect the same as the regular Model 1893 with the exception that the barrels will be made of the highest obtainable grade of soft gun barrel steel instead of their “Special Smokeless Steel”. The intention is to meet the large demand for a high-class, carefully made arm on the part of many shooters who are not sufficiently interested in the smokeless steel barrels to pay for the extra cost. The new line is, of course, not intended for high power smokeless ammunition and its use in this grade is not advised by the makers: only black powder ammunition and equivalent loads such as low power smokeless should be used. The 32-40 and 38-55 sizes only will be made in this grade.
The line will consist of the carbine with 15-inch round barrel weighing 6 1/4 pounds and carrying five shots, or with 20-inch round barrel weighing 6 3/4 pounds and carrying seven shots. With the regular round barrels in 26-inch to 32-inch lengths the rifle may be had weighing 7 to 7 3/4 pounds. Octagon barrels are furnished 26-inches to 32-inches long the rifles weighing 7 1/2 pounds to 8 1/2 pounds. These rifles can be furnished in short half or full magazine. They accommodate a wide range of cartridges and all the popular ammunition with the exception noted above regarding high power smokeless powder.
and lastly…
Recreation Magazine, 1899, page 298
Will the rifling of a Winchester 38-55 (common barrel) be injured by the use of a smokeless powder cartridge with soft point jacketed bullet? The Winchester people claim the gun is capable of handling this cartridge but whether it is harmful or not they do not mention. I have heard men say the jacketed bullet was ruinous to the rifling and to the accuracy unless used with the nickel steel barrel. No doubt many of RECREATION’s readers would like to use this more powerful cartridge in their now accurate rifle but for the liability of their being ruined. Please let me hear the experience of some of the friends of RECREATION. ~R.C.G. Merriam Park Minn.
I referred this inquiry to the Winchester Repeating Arms Co and they reply:
Our 38-55 rifle will not be injured when 38-55 smokeless cartridges of our make are used. The bullet will not harm the rifling. Smokeless powder is more difficult to clean than black. Where smokeless powder cartridges are made to take the place of black powder cartridges in guns which were intended for black powder, such smokeless powder is used as will give the same pressures and same velocities as were obtained with black powder in the black powder cartridges intended for the gun originally. We do the best we can to have the combination give the same velocity as before, which it would be difficult to get same accuracy.
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